Inside A Building Surveying Apprenticeship – Sonya Swaley – RICS Apprentice of the Year

Speaker 1: 00:08
Hello and welcome. You’re listening to This Is Surveying, the podcast shining a light on the people, ideas, and stories shaping this incredible profession. I’m Nina Young, founder of Surveyors UK and the Surveying Room, the community bringing surveyors together, breaking down silos, and making surveying visible. So for now, let’s dive into our latest episode. Hello everybody. Welcome to This Is Surveying. Today’s guest is Sonia Swaley. Sonia is a building surveyor apprentice, and I’m pleased to also share with you that recently she won the RICS Matrix Apprentice of the Year Award, which is phenomenal. And congratulations, Sonia, for that because that is such an achievement. So basically, on this show, no pressure, we have a rising star. So without further ado, as we do with all episodes, if you could tell the listeners a little bit about yourself, maybe why building surveying, why the apprenticeship, that kind of thing, that would be interesting to provide some context.

Speaker: 01:21
Yeah, so um I would say my journey to becoming an apprentice wasn’t so linear. When I left school, everyone kind of pushes you to go to full-time university. And that was what I initially did. So I left school. I was part of the group of A-level students who didn’t actually take their exams because of COVID. So I was handed my grades, and luckily I did quite well. I don’t know what would have happened if I actually took the exams. But yeah, so I ended up going to Burwick University to study economics.

Speaker 1: 01:56
Right.

Speaker: 01:57
Completely unrelated to the construction industry. And then after a year, I thought, actually, this isn’t right for me, and moved back home and I started looking at apprenticeships, and I actually did a A level in professional construction. Oh, right, okay. So yeah, I quite enjoyed that, and I thought, you know what, that’s probably a good route for me to go down. So I applied to some apprenticeships, started working at Martin Arnold, and was on my apprenticeship journey at university, started working, and then around two years in, I moved companies to where I am now at Murray Birrell. So I’m four years, well, four and a bit years into my apprenticeship, and will be finishing next year.

Speaker 1: 02:45
How long do they take? Sorry, Sonia. How long do they normally take apprenticeships?

Speaker: 02:48
So my one’s five years, but I believe there is a four-year one as well. But I think you go to university a bit more often.

Speaker 1: 02:55
Right, okay.

Speaker: 02:56
Yeah, just to squeeze the time.

Speaker 1: 02:58
So have you found it, the whole apprenticeship?

Speaker: 03:01
It’s challenging. Yeah. Definitely challenging, and it’s been a lot of fun as well. Someone who quite likes to challenge themselves. And if I’m not learning something new, I get bored quite easily. So the fact that the fact that you’re learning and applying it at the same time, it makes it a lot easier to study and work. So yeah, it’s been it’s been good in that sense that you enjoy it, but yeah, definitely challenging. You the last thing sometimes you want to do is get home from work and think, I’ve got a deadline tomorrow, but it is very rewarding at the end of it.

Speaker 1: 03:38
Yeah. What is it in particular? Because I know one of the things I hear a lot is that we have a shortage of building surveyors, so it’s very good that you’re you’re on this path because there is definitely a shortage. What is it about building surveying? Because I know a lot of a lot of students can go down like the quantity surveying path. That seems to be one that’s really obvious and very heavily promoted. I don’t know a lot about it, but I that’s what I hear. But why building surveying? It’s like why that?

Speaker: 04:04
Yeah, it’s it’s interesting as well because obviously we know with the shortage of skilled surveyors and surveyors, but then when you look at the opposite end of the scale for people like me who are training, in my lecture halls, it’s probably 95% quantity surveyors, a couple of architectural technologists, and there’s only 10 of us building surveyors in the cohort this year. So I know that it’s normally uh much smaller than the quantity surveyors. Quantity surveying definitely is the one that’s why do you think the QS is more?

Speaker 1: 04:42
What are your thoughts on that?

Speaker: 04:44
It’s probably to do with the image of it and as well. Not many people know what building surveyors actually do, and it is less promoted, but actually the role is I would say, in my opinion, maybe I’m biased, but I would say it’s a lot more varied in what you do, yeah, and you have a much broader skill set. So, yes, you can do drawings, there’s you can do CAD drawings, you can do valuations, and you’re on site, you’re in the office, so you do you do a much broader, I would say, spectrum of things as a building surveyor, and then you also have the opportunity to specialise, whereas maybe for a QS there’s less of that opportunity, but maybe it’s maybe it’s potentially to do with the perceived pay, I’m not sure.

Speaker 1: 05:38
That’s something I hear a lot is that the QS’s salary salary bans are higher.

Speaker: 05:43
Yeah, and and they probably are, but I think with building surveyors there’s a much more drive to get chartered, whereas with my QS peers, you can see that they’re actually less driven to go for that. And maybe it’s because they don’t they don’t really need to have it as much as a building surveyor probably would.

Speaker 1: 06:05
Yeah, okay. So yes, you are, and you’re on the chartered path.

Speaker: 06:09
Yes, so I’ve started my APC journey this summer.

Speaker 1: 06:14
Wow. And how you how yeah, because I I hear it’s it’s it is very, very challenging. How are you finding it?

Speaker: 06:22
It’s challenging, but also because uni prepares you in a sense for what to expect. So we’ve already been keeping our diary from the beginning of 2021 when I first started as an apprentice. So, in a sense, we’re we’re already kind of doing the bits we needed to do and prepares you, but it is obviously a lot of work. So at the moment, doing uni work and APC, it is a lot. Sometimes one has to take a bit of put it on the back burner and focus on uni in one season, and then you can kind of switch switch it around. So it definitely is challenging, but it puts you ahead, I would say, because it’s easy, really easy to just think I’ll leave that right till the end. But with the apprenticeship, they make you start it whilst you’re doing it, and you’re already prepared, so you slowly chip away at it, and by hopefully by the end of next year, I should be ready, fingers crossed, to sit my APC if I’m ready.

Speaker 1: 07:24
Wow, you’re doing great, you’re doing great. So um going back to the award, how did you I I couldn’t make it this year to the the the Matrix Awards and yeah, because we would have met, but how did you find it? Was it your first time there?

Speaker: 07:38
Yeah, it was my first time there. It was really nice. The company got a table with everyone, my parents came. Oh, nice. Um, so we had a lovely night, but it was actually a week later that I got a call and found out about winning the award. So I didn’t find out there and then and I found out a week later, but the the night in general was really good, and it was great to be in a room where everyone was being celebrated for the in what they do in the industry. And yeah, it was just it was nice to be recognised for what I’ve been doing as an apprentice, and it’s very easy to think you’re not doing enough or you could do more, and because it’s such a long process, five years, you have to keep motivating yourself. So it was really nice to get that at this point, and you’re kind of nearing towards the end.

Speaker 1: 08:24
I think the the Matrix Awards are really inspiring when you see there’s a real buzz in the room. There’s that recognition of of genuine hard work and how people have worked so hard to get there. And I think it’s one of those. I think we need not necessarily more rewards, but I think we need more events like that, where there is the ability for surveyors and and student apprentices to come together in that kind of environment. How do you find like just something I’m curious about, like with networking and things or with other people outside of your work? Do you ever go to any meetups or is there anything in your area?

Speaker: 09:02
Yeah, so there’s actually a lot out there. Right, okay. Um, aside from work. So generally for apprentices, I’ve signed up with the Association of Apprentices. Right. So that’s across all industries. And I’ve attended a few of their events, and actually it’s it’s really interesting to speak to other apprentices because they’re also working towards their endpoint assessment and having their own experiences at work, and you can kind of share your experiences and what works and what doesn’t, and how you could you all kind of have that community, which is really nice because for someone like me, I’m the only apprentice in my company. Yeah, I’m their first and only apprentice. So getting outside of the work environment and speaking to other apprentices, it’s it’s nice to be able to connect and network. And you do end up finding other building surveyors or quantity surveyors in these in these rooms. So it is really good. I know there’s another one called Outer Circle.

Speaker 1: 10:03
Okay.

Speaker: 10:04
I haven’t personally been to one of their events, but I see a lot of it on LinkedIn and they organise some really nice events. I think they have a I think they have a gala planned after Christmas. So there’s plenty out there for apprentices to network, which is really good.

Speaker 1: 10:20
Yeah. What I’ll do is as and and anything else that we talk about, I’ll uh include some links to those.

Speaker 2: 10:26
Yeah, that’s true.

Speaker 1: 10:27
So it sounds like it’s something you’d recommend to other apprentices going to, for example, the Association Apprenticeship. It sounds like a really yeah, because I don’t know much about that. So it kind of makes sense because she like you say, if you’re the only one, especially, which a lot of apprentices are in in firms, if you’re the only one, it’s nice to be able to, even if someone’s not on the same, the same route as you, you can kind of share the same sort of challenges. Yeah, because they will be across the board. Oh, right. Okay. That’s good. Yeah, that’s really good. Okay. So speaking of employers, I think when we’ve spoken before, we’ve talked about one of the areas is encouraging more employers to take on apprenticeships, I think. Because I think there has been there’s been more talk about it. I think there are more initiatives about it across the profession, apprenticeships, which I think is good. Because I’m I’m really, really a big sort of ambassador for apprenticeships. I think they’re incredible. I think we need more of them, and we do need more firms to take on apprenticeships. But I’m interested in your thoughts on if an employer was to take on an apprenticeship, what’s the experience like for them and for you, and how you’ve experienced that yourself?

Speaker: 11:45
Yeah, so as I said, I was my first, I was the first apprentice at my company. I think they were probably looking for a graduate. And then I was he went for the interview and explained that I’m on this apprenticeship, and the uni was really good. So I’m I go to London South Bank University and they take you through the whole enrolment process. So they dealt with all of that, the paperwork. Obviously, when I um enrolled to my company now, I already had two years’ experience, so maybe slightly different from an apprentice who’s just left school and about to start. But I would say, in a way, for an employer, there’s a benefit to that because you’re you’re training them from the start, and in many ways, a graduate will also be very fresh in that sense. Yes, they have the theory and they’ve probably heard all the terms before, but from what I can see at university and what I’m learning, you don’t go into that depth enough to prepare you for exactly how things go in the day-to-day. So, in a sense, you’re almost teaching a grad the same thing that an apprentice would, they’re just a bit greener. I did actually speak to another firm who was looking at taking on an apprentice and sat down with the young student who was looking to join the firm and just explained to him the benefits. So, as an apprentice, obviously you’re you’re earning, you’re studying towards an ag degree, you’re going to get chartered by the end of it, and you don’t have any student debt. So there’s there’s so many benefits to it. Yes, it’s challenging, but if you want it. And as well for employers, I think if you’re a small employer, you can apply for government funding for I think I think it’s between 95 to 100% of the apprentices’ studying fees. So if there is a lot of support out there, obviously you need to just check if you’re eligible, but I think not not as many people know about it or how to go about it and start the process. So I think it’s important that it as it is looked into and it is about reaching out to those universities and partnering with them. Because there are there are definitely a lot of people who would I know students who would benefit from a career like this. It’s something that if you’re if you don’t like sitting still for too long and you get a bit fidgety like me, then and your week’s gonna be different each week and you stay simulated for that. And so I think for a lot of for a lot of students, a career like this would actually really stand out. It’s just about creating that opportunity for them.

Speaker 1: 14:39
Yeah. I think you’ve got a really one of the really important points that stands out is around that kind of on the job training from day one, earning obviously no no student debt. That’s just that’s amazing. But it’s that right from day one, you’re you’re having to learn communication skills, for example, that we’ve mentioned before, which is like so fundamental. And yes, obviously, there are similar sort of training and routes with a graduate, but I think with apprenticeships, there’s also a vested thing, isn’t it? Because you’re employed. It’s kind of and also for the firm, I would imagine what’s really good about it is that like you’ll all be well chartered next year. Next year, is that correct? You said hopefully, yeah. I have a I have strong confidence in you, is that you’ll be chartered next year and they have somebody that is chartered, works with them, works, works for them, and you’ve learned their ways of working, their culture, all those kind of things. And then you’re also best placed if maybe in the future, say for example, they were bringing on someone who you know you can almost show the road. There’s all sorts of different upsides, I think, to it. And obviously it doesn’t suit everybody, but I think it opens more doors for people, it makes it more accessible, those apprenticeships to more people that can’t even begin to consider university.

Speaker: 16:06
It I would say as well, touching on your point about growing in confidence and communication. I’ve seen from just my own journey how I was so shy and nervous at the beginning to be in these client meetings, and you don’t normally admit that that you feel nervous or you just gotta turn up and be ready. But actually, as an apprentice, you are gonna feel that at the beginning, and it’s crazy how over the past few years you really feel the shift in confidence and the shift in your knowledge or skills and how you act, and it’s made my confidence grow so so much, and not it’s not just about the knowledge or the experience or the skills, you you grow personally a lot in an apprentice, an apprenticeship, even how you carry yourself. I remember when I had my first kind of challenging conversation and with a contractor on site, right? And this was a couple of years ago, but I I was going onto site knowing that there was going to be some sort of conversation, yeah, because I could just tell by the tone before I arrived on site that okay, this is gonna be a difficult conversation. And you know what? I was I I think I handed it really well, and you you you tackle it with kindness and you tackle it with facts, and I laid out the facts and actually it completely diffused the situation, and coming out of that experience being so positive, and you just keep building on that and compounding those experiences, and it just it just sets you up to go even further.

Speaker 1: 17:48
I think I I can imagine a lot of challenging conversations dealing with contractors, construction, all the areas you hear a lot of things, and it is it’s that ability to be able to, like you say, stick to the facts, maintain a professionalism, and not always take it personally. And that’s not always an easy thing, but these are things that you learn over time is how to deal with the situations, and if you’re dealing with things very early on, then you do mature, you do grow fast because you’re thrown into scenarios that maybe you wouldn’t have been, and then you have to deal with it.

Speaker: 18:21
Yeah, I do always think that I think you get a lot of responsibility, but that doesn’t mean it doesn’t come without supervision, so it’s not that you feel lost and you have to work everything out yourself. You always have that support, which is important, but you also have the chance to stand on your own two feet. So you get the balance of both of those perspectives, which is good.

Speaker 1: 18:44
That’s good. So one of the things, obviously, a rising star, an award, an award winner, but also you’re a woman in surveying, which is obviously a very male-dominated profession. I don’t know what the current figures are, but it’s something around, I think it’s around 85% male and 15% female. So, what are your thoughts about being a woman in surveying? And is anything that you’ve had to deal with, or would you encourage other women to do it, that kind of thing?

Speaker: 19:12
Mm-hmm. I think maybe at the beginning, when I first started, you you see the the fact that it’s male-dominated and it doesn’t necessarily surprise you, but you notice it, and maybe you do things a certain way, or you steer clear of certain conversations because you are maybe the only woman in the room. But after a while, I think you don’t see it anymore, you don’t focus on that. I think it is important, obviously, for more women to get into surveying and also into the industry because there are so many amazing groups out there, for example. Um, I think there’s a women in property, a woman in construction, yeah, and I’ve been to a couple of their events, and it’s great to connect with people in the industry because sometimes you find that in this role you don’t come across many women. Luckily at my firm, actually, there’s a lot of women, and I think it’s like 50% is probably women in the which is great, yeah. Um, but we’re also a very small firm, so it’s great to connect with other women in the industry and just share experiences and connect, and you can hear about other people who have taken the APC and how that’s been for them. So I would say at the beginning, maybe I thought, is this going to be a challenge? And sometimes you maybe think it is that you walk on site and people have preconceived thoughts before you even open your mouth. But you you tend not to focus on those things because if you know what you’re doing and you know what you’re saying, then it doesn’t have to be the focal point.

Speaker 1: 20:50
No, no, I agree, I agree. What would you say around sort of your experiences with building surveying? What is it that makes this might be a difficult question, I don’t know, what makes a good building surveyor in your thoughts?

Speaker: 21:07
I personally think at the heart of the profession, building surveyors are problem solvers and they will act in the best interests of their clients. So it’s about working from the bottom and creating a story of what’s the cause, what’s the effect, and what’s the solution. And there’s building surveyors, I would say, a very methodical as a as I said, problem solvers. So that’s why building surveying for me is something that I’m very passionate about because I love problem solving, I love a challenge. Okay, and you know that no two problems are going to be the same. Yeah, you can go to two separate buildings and they’ll have the same issue, but they’re two completely separate buildings, so in that sense, you’re never coming across the same thing, and there’s a beauty. Beauty in that?

Speaker 1: 22:01
No, I know. I totally get that. The amount of surveys that’s say to me, no matter what age, every day is a school day, every day you can literally be experienced for 30, 40, even 50 years, and you will see something that you’ve never seen before. And it’s always also that constant learning. That you constantly, if you’ve got a you which you clearly have, you obviously love to learn and love a challenge, then it kind of fits also with the role because you can’t ever assume to know everything because you’ll always learn new things. But I think the variety is an interesting one because you touched upon the fact that potentially there’s more variety in building survey, and I can kind of see that compared to maybe quantity surveying. What is it about all the things you do day to day? What is the part? And I I think I might know the answer, but what is the part that you tend to enjoy the most that you do?

Speaker: 23:01
That is a difficult question because it’s almost you don’t enjoy a particular part, particular part that you enjoy kind of the the process of everything combined. Right. Yes, I like going to site, but I probably wouldn’t like going to site every single day.

Speaker 1: 23:19
Okay.

Speaker: 23:20
So there’s I think it’s I like that you have a bit of everything, and even with going to uni once a week, I think for me that’s important to be able to actually learn the theory behind things because obviously learning on the job is can very important, but it you also need to learn why you’re doing that.

Speaker 2: 23:41
Yeah.

Speaker: 23:42
So naturally it is it is the learning element of what I’m doing that I enjoy the most, but it is difficult to say what do you enjoy. That’s fair enough.

Speaker 1: 23:52
It’s probably yeah, it’s probably a bit too uh too early at this stage, maybe to ask that question your career, but it’s because one of the things that I always hear a lot from building surveyors is they their favourite part is being out on site, it’s the following the trail, identifying issues, risks, defects, this kind of thing, problem solving. Whereas a lot of the admin reporting side is probably one of the least favourite aspects of the role. So it’s probably a bit unfair to ask you that yet. I think it’s something I’d ask you in like 10 years, and then you’ll maybe go, yeah. Is and and again, this might be maybe too early to ask, but is there any area that you are interested in as a specialism or some obviously some building spheres will go into certain like heritage conservation, that kind of thing?

Speaker: 24:39
It’s difficult to say. Yeah, sure. We do also have a party rule and licenses in our company which I have had a little bit of exposure to, but not so much at this stage. Obviously, I’m trying to get chartered and you kind of stick on your set route and you do a little bit for experience, but at the moment I haven’t delved into everything that’s out there. Sure. I would say when I first started, I was doing predominantly new builds, and then moving over to Murray Bear, we work on a lot of heritage buildings, listed buildings. Definitely I prefer that to new builds.

Speaker 1: 25:20
Yeah.

Speaker: 25:20
Yes, lots of old buildings.

Speaker 1: 25:22
Yeah, I can imagine. Yeah.

Speaker: 25:23
And yeah, snagging for white walls is not as interesting as you know.

Speaker 1: 25:29
Yeah, totally get it. I’ve I I absolutely love old buildings, so yeah, I can totally understand that. That would be I can see the the snagging side being quite monotonous and less less variety of defects as well. You know, the older the building, the more you’re gonna see.

Speaker: 25:43
Yeah, no, it’s it is good going from working on new builds and yeah, you see you see the foundations going and you see it go from from the ground until it’s complete and people are living in there, which is a completely separate thing to working on refurbishment projects on these older buildings. But I think both of them I definitely learnt a lot, but I do prefer, I would say, what I’m doing now.

Speaker 1: 26:07
Yeah, yeah. Is there anyone in your family um that is in this area in surveying as a matter of interest?

Speaker: 26:14
Um, no, no one, no one that I know of in my family doing surveying. My parents have always kind of been in the property construction kind of sectors. My dad used to work in cladding, and now they both run their own business together selling materials. So they’ve always been in that kind of industry. It’s probably had an effect on me, but no, not not that I know of.

Speaker 1: 26:37
Yeah, because it’s uh I like to ask people because uh some people so many like going to surveying because it’s either parents or family close family members, and that’s how there’s a lot of people that do that.

Speaker: 26:50
Because that uni, someone’s like, Oh yeah, my dad is a surveying firm or so. And I thought, oh, okay.

Speaker 1: 26:57
Yeah. Have you ever had when someone asks you what do you do? Do you always find it a difficult thing to explain?

Speaker: 27:04
Yeah, definitely. My best friend, she still doesn’t know what I do. Every time I see her, she’s like, What do you do again? I try to explain it to her, and she’s like, you know what, you’re doing great, whatever you do.

Speaker 1: 27:16
It’s funny, it’s one of those things that you can be really hard to explain.

Speaker: 27:19
It is funny because everyone will think you’re doing something different. My grandparents think I build houses. So you try to explain, but it’s it’s har it really is hard to explain until you’ve done part of the job.

Speaker 1: 27:33
Right.

Speaker: 27:34
So you know, yeah. So even me going into the job, you don’t you can learn what you do, but you don’t actually know until you do it.

Speaker 1: 27:42
Yeah, I think it can be such I think surveying in general, it’s one of the things I’m working hard with with Survey GK, just to make surveying more known and understood and this kind of thing and an awareness of it. But you know, I I for a for a during during COVID, I I trained to be residential surveyor and valuer, and I remember telling people I’m gonna do this, and they were just like, What? I kind of explain it. And in residential surveying, it’s a bit easier because a lot of people may have experienced it. It’s one of those areas that you might experience it, surveying, because if you’ve ever sold a board, bought a house.

Speaker: 28:18
Yeah.

Speaker 1: 28:18
But other types of surveying, it it’s it’s not something you come across, like the party wall surveyor unless you’ve had a party wall issue. You just don’t. But I think the term surveyor and stuff, and and not it being easy to explain or for people to comprehend, I do wonder if that can really impact them bringing encouraging people to come in to the profession when it’s actually difficult in itself to grasp. Does that make sense?

Speaker: 28:45
Whereas Yeah, I see what you mean. And as well, it’s like you don’t you never even think about it until you need one, which is and then when you find out you’re like, oh okay, didn’t know they existed.

Speaker 1: 28:55
Yeah, and those little those are just popped about the woodwork. Whereas, like I’ve always said, everyone knows an accountant or a solicitor, they’re kind of even even when you’re young, you had an idea of what that would be. But you say survey and they go, What? It’s like they’ll they’re just never a concept.

Speaker: 29:10
Even in school, I mean I was really lucky to have that construction A level, but we were one in two schools in the country that was offering that. So you can see how how it no one really does it. And I actually found out earlier this year that the my old school’s stopping it. So it’s really a shame. I’m sure there’s loads of colleges that probably do something, you know, similar, but you these kind of professions aren’t exposed to younger generations and students who if they’re not kind of steered in that, not steered in the direction, but at least exposed to what is out there, then they’re never gonna know unless it’s those headline kind of careers.

Speaker 1: 29:55
I know, and I think it’s there is a lot, I know there is always a lot of push for QS, and I think QS can be easier to explain, I think, as a profession. But when I think about when I look back and I did a geography, geography A level, I love geography. And when I think about it, even in geography, we did what at that time it was like urban geography, rural geography. And when we did urban geography, it could have been such an easy it could be such an easy thing to include in the curriculum, just something around playing, just literally a module or something, and you could put that in. I know there are the conversations I have seen talking about GCSEs and things like that, and I think for built and buy built environment GCSE, I think is being discussed.

Speaker: 30:38
I think again, my school does still do that one, which is really good, but it’s just making sure that they continue to and it becomes more widespread. But I would say even with the school’s careers fairs, they’re really a good opportunity to just tell students what surveying’s really about.

Speaker 1: 30:59
Okay, is there anything else before we sort of sign off for today that you want to mention? Or I mean one of the things I did want to ask if anyone ever wants to get in touch with you or find you, where where could they get hold of you? If you want them to get hold of you, obviously. You’re not just gonna share your details out online. It’s just a question if you’re you know, maybe LinkedIn or something like that.

Speaker: 31:19
Yeah, LinkedIn’s probably the best place.

Speaker 1: 31:22
Sure. Okay, I shall put your profile. Oh, that’s actually one thing that would be a quick thing to mention, is I’ve noticed, you know, I’m very active on LinkedIn, and I’ve noticed you are, which is great. And I think that more and more younger professionals should be more present on LinkedIn, and you do great posts. Is that something you’ve just learnt yourself? And how have you found it, like doing that kind of thing on LinkedIn? And how do you think it benefits you?

Speaker: 31:49
I think it is important. I think there’s mixed views about LinkedIn about, you know, in one sense, people say you’re kind of just shouting out, you know, I’ve done this, I’ve done that. But really, I would say the core the core reason that I think LinkedIn is good to use as a tool, especially for a young person, is that you get to connect with so many people across the industry. And it’s it’s interesting that actually people have reached out to me to ask me, can you tell me about what you do? Because actually I’m interested in looking doing surveying. So it’s not just about you taking knowledge and information from LinkedIn, you can also give back information and help others out. I mean, I’ve been doing the apprenticeship for four years now, but at the start, you kind of just connect with as many people as you can to make your outreach as big as possible. Brilliant. Yeah. You learn from others and you can learn some really interesting stories on there. And luckily you can filter out what you don’t want to see. But then it is, I think it is a good chance to spread your story a little bit and what you get up to because it’s easy to just hit these little milestones and think, oh yeah, I’ve done that. It’s almost also a little portfolio for yourself to remember these things that you’ve done and your experiences.

Speaker 1: 33:13
It is, yeah, it’s professional. It’s not it’s not like the Facebooks, where you know, oh, this time last year I was here having this party. It’s more like it’s like it’s a professional, isn’t it? Like your story and your your journey. And I think you it’s so right about the fact you it is two ways LinkedIn. And I mean, I used to feel like that a long time ago. Like, don’t want to mention this. I don’t want to, but you can mention things in a way that it isn’t about bragging, it’s about sharing things. Because the important thing to mention also for someone like you, you will be an inspiration for others looking at your posts and looking at you, the fact that you, you know, you’ve won this award, that’s inspiring for other people thinking about it. And I think, and that’s part of what I’m trying to do with this podcast is so that people can hear from other people’s stories and think, yes, that’s something that would interest me. I’d like to learn a bit more about that. I had very briefly, I had someone come up to me at an event last year, and he said the reason he decided to start training to be a residential surveyor was because he heard me on a podcast.

Speaker: 34:19
Really?

Speaker 1: 34:20
And he just the next day he booked up booked on the course and off he went. And that was an amazing thing when he came up to me. I was like, he said, I just want to But it’s those kind of things. So that’ll be the same that you won’t necessarily people won’t necessarily have liked your post, people won’t necessarily have commented, but they’re watching and they’re seeing you, you’re going through an apprentice route, heading towards chartership, winning an award. And I I think that’s just inspiring for other people that they see that. So you’re doing good in that way as well. It’s not all one way. And the fact that your people are coming to you and reaching out to you and asking you questions is great because that’s what it’s all about.

Speaker: 34:56
And it is really nice because I feel like I’m always learning from others.

Speaker 1: 34:60
Yeah.

Speaker: 35:01
So at least in some sense, I can give a bit of my experience to people younger than me who are just starting fresh.

Speaker 1: 35:10
It’s a give and take thing, and I think that’s the important thing when you’re using something like LinkedIn, is that uh sadly what I see a lot of can be not necessarily in surveying, but just generally is just like people just post one way, they never engage with others, they don’t connect, they just it can be like, look at me. Whereas if you use it as a medium where you can read posts, I mean, as you will have probably experienced, you can meet amazing people that you’d never meet in real life, like in the scenario, and then you can connect with them, and then there’s always that person then that you can go to in the future if something comes up and you think, oh, I know that person on LinkedIn.

Speaker: 35:48
Yeah, absolutely. Even events. You find out about so many events and networking opportunities on LinkedIn that you probably wouldn’t hear of otherwise. So even if you don’t want to post, it’s just a great platform to stay involved in whichever industry you’re in, but surveying obviously, particularly.

Speaker 1: 36:05
Yeah, but I think it’s great, and I think we need more and more people like you to do that kind of posting and stuff because I think there’s a lot that won’t surveyors don’t like to post. They don’t like to post on LinkedIn. It’s it’s social media is a bit of a a marmite thing, and I think it’s uh majority of people just just read LinkedIn, they don’t actually engage, but so it’s really good and just keep doing what you’re doing, just keep doing it. I think it’s inspiring. And yeah, it’s been lovely to talk to you today. I’ve really enjoyed a conversation.

Speaker: 36:33
It’s really lovely chatting with you.

Speaker 1: 36:35
I really appreciate it and appreciate your time. Thank you for listening to This Is Surveying. If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe and leave a review. It really helps more people discover the podcast and supports the work we’re doing to raise awareness of the profession. You can also join the Surveying Room, the free and independent community from Surveys UK, bringing surveyors together, breaking down silos, and of course making surveying visible. Just head over to surveyors UK.com to learn more and join today. All the links discussed in today’s episode are included in the show notes.