Drone Surveying and Life as a Chief UAS Pilot with Zara McGregor

Speaker: 00:09
Hello and welcome. You’re listening to This is Surveying, the podcast shining a light on the people, ideas, and stories making this incredible profession. I’m Mimi Young, founder of SurveyPook Play and the Surveying Room, the community bringing surveys together, breaking down silos, and making surveying visible. So for now, let’s dive into our latest episode. Hello everybody, and welcome to This is Surveying. Today I am joined by Zara McGregor, who is a chief UAS pilot for Ploughman Craven. And I know a lot of you are going to be interested in listening to this episode because I know many surveyors who absolutely love their drones or ask a lot about drones or are interested in getting started with them. And I think we’re going to hear a lot of interesting stories from Zara. No pressure Zara. But but welcome, welcome to the show. Thank you. Excited to be here. It’s great. It’s great to have you here. You have, I’ve I’ve heard some really good things about the work you’ve done. I’ve seen some amazing things that you’ve shared on LinkedIn, which is great. I think we need we need that kind of thing to see more and more, especially using drones, what they are capable of. And I really like the work that you do with that on the social media because I think it’s a really good way of spreading awareness. As I tend to start off with everybody, how did you end up becoming a chief drone pilot? So I mean, kind of where did where did it? I’m sure you didn’t just wake up one day and go, that’s me. Yeah, it’s been the dream since day one. No, so I became a drone pilot by saying yes to all my opportunities and also creating ones myself. So I originally, when I was at school, I was a bit stuck and I didn’t want to follow everyone going to uni. I didn’t know what to do. I thought it would be a waste of my time and a load of people’s money. So I thought, let me think of something else. I did work experience at a railway company called Bridgeway, and throughout that process, I learned all about like 3D point clouds, and they said that they use drones. And I was like, Interesting. I didn’t know a lot about them, but I did like photography, and later on that year, I then bought myself a little DJI Mavic Air, and I started playing around with that, and it was like the thumb muscle memory because I’ve always been a bit of a gamer. So I thought this is quite fun. I could get used to this. So I did a degree apprenticeship for two years at Dudley College, had an amazing time. Although it was through COVID, my college assessor Khalil was really, really fun to work with, and yeah, I still have a lot of information that I recall from that entire course that I use in my day-to-day. So that’s been worth it. So what what was the call course called? What was it? It was a geospatial technician course. So I think it matches the A-level standard. Yeah. Yeah, I was happy I got a qualification and I thought I’m earning and learning. And if I didn’t like it anyway, it was just experience. But it turns out I did. I just thought, let me stop working on the railway as a land surveyor. I’ve had a number of night shifts on that. But I had a great time, it was very humbling. And I moved one of my colleagues, Jacob, he actually not colleagues, sorry, one of my other apprenticeship mates on the course. He was working at a different land survey company and said he uses drones and he actually flies them. And I was like, oh, so if you’re able to and you’re similar to my age, maybe I will, maybe I could do this. He was in a different office, so I thought, cool, I’ll go to, you know, the one in Nottingham where I was from at the time. Yeah, I applied, there was no job role, but I just put my CV through the website as if it was like asking for a survey. And I was like, this is me. I’m interested in doing XYZ. I also like drones. And then I got an interview off the back of that. I was then working as a CAD tech doing floor plans and elevations, which were really fun because I quite like detail-oriented stuff. So that was like my sort of like focus and just then. I really enjoyed doing that. And then I was able to start flying the drones for company. I thought this is so exciting. That was the first time I’d flown a DJI M350. Actually, I’m going to say that again. I do that. Go on, go on. It was an M300. I do the M350s now. And I remember thinking, whoa, this is an absolute beast of a drone. This is super cool. Like if my parents could see me right now, they’d be like, what are you doing with that giant? How big are they? How big are they? I mean like a meter width. Right, okay. I should know this off by heart, but it’s No, but just an idea, yeah. Yeah, big. Big then. Yeah, quite big. It weighs like around nine kilograms with the desired payloads that you get on it, like the cameras or the LIDAR cameras or whatever you want to pop on for your survey. But yeah, that was super cool. So I was there for a bit, and then I moved to a startup company where I was flying the same drones again. I was actually working a four-day working week. So I thought I’ve peaked. This is amazing. I was like, who doesn’t love this? I’m like 21. I was like, I’ve already got it in the bag, I’ve sold it. Yeah, I bet. It’s like the ideal, isn’t it? It was, it was. And I was very naive to what a startup company was. So straight away it was like deep end, like re-jigging some people, you know, they chop and change the way that the company works, they get rid of some people, get more people in. And I just thought, oh gosh, I hope they don’t do that with me because I just moved to London and everyone knows how hard it is finding a place and also paying the rent each month. So that was a bit of pressure, but I was there for almost two years, and then I saw this job role crop up on LinkedIn and it said chief UAS pilot. And I thought that would be really funny if I somehow I didn’t even think about the end process. I just thought I’m gonna give that a go and just see, you know, if I don’t get it, then where am I at to get to a higher level than what I was currently at? So yeah, I applied for that. I got speaking to my director, James, and he’s got a wealth of experience. And my interview with him, I just remember thinking, even if nothing comes of this, I’ve just had a great conversation. Like this man’s been all over the world, he’s been on oil rigs, doing all these other things that I’ve got no experience in. I thought, oh wow, like that sounds great. I’d like to try maybe not all the time, but I’d like to give that a go. We’ll see. And then yeah, I’ve wound up here. Now I’m almost, I think May, that’ll be my one year at Plown and Craven. So yeah, sorry if you’ve all switched off listening now, but the so what kind of what is it you’re actually doing? Like, describe a typical there may not be, but a typical day of of what it is you do. Yeah, there is no typical day, which is what I quite like. Yeah, okay. Obviously, everyone who is a surveyor will know that you know it depends on what your role is, obviously, but you’d be out on site, get the data, bring it back, process if you are processing it, and then pass it off to the client does. There’s a lot of like office work, site work, which is quite a nice blend. But my role now, it’s evolved since starting here. I had to obviously get to grips with the team, how they function together, how they do all their plans and rams, because that varies from company to company. You just got to get yourself intertwined with all the documents, making sure that what we say, we do, we do. So I was out on the site quite a lot when I started, and then now I’m evolving into more of a regulatory and compliance role, making sure that we’re sticking to the rules from the CA. I’m gonna say, okay, so because there’s has been some changes, I believe. There has been so many changes, yeah. Right. Okay. I don’t know, what is it, four five or six years of actually droning on. I’ve yeah, the rules have changed multiple times, and you can get so caught up in what you think you know. And if you don’t stay up to date, you could actually be doing it like out of you know what you’re supposed to do, which can flag up really as like that’s operating outside of your boundaries, so it’s then therefore illegal, which that word I have heard in the past, and I’m like, that frightens me. I’m very much a stickler for making sure we get everything ironed out, making sure the informations that we are using are valid, and we can track our flights, we can see the distances we are from the drone, because a lot of our projects are like we go beyond the 500 meters visual line of sight. Oh, right, okay. Plan where your takeoffs are to make sure that you know you’re carrying on, you’re with the drone at all times. What’s one of the biggest challenges? Because yeah, I’m gonna say because there are areas I know that you can’t fly, obviously. Yeah. Restricted, restrictive zones. Do you come across that quite a lot or loads? Yeah. There’s a lot in London. We do quite a lot of inspection work, so a lot of rooftop inspections, which obviously that’s not you flying far far or flying very high, but you’re in like the London restriction zones. So we have to apply a lot for that through different websites. One of our big sort of softwares, I don’t know if it was a software, or just like online tool that we used to have called Altitude Angel, that at last year was like put into administration, so then you couldn’t rely on that. And it really nicely synced up with a load of the restricted areas or flight restriction zones around the air spaces. So you could easily go, I’d like to fly here, and it’d take you to the page and it’d do it all for you. But then that got taken away. So you had to go old school, get the contact details, ring up the airfield, ask them, hey, can you send me a doc? I’ll fill out what I want, the serial numbers of my drone, etc. etc. So it’s made it a lot more lengthy, but it’s sort of fact-checked everyone. I think it’s quite a good thing, you know. Some of these rejigs, you don’t you realize you shouldn’t be relying on one thing, which I’m sure everyone in the drone industry sort of was. It’s such a great tool. And we it’s still it’s still operational now, but there’s doubt because we haven’t heard a lot of stuff in the news about it, whether it’s I think it’s been bought, but I don’t know the full outcome. Interesting. After this, Carl, I’ll have to do a bit of research. Yeah, a little bit. Because I imagine it sounds amazing. Yeah, it sounds really good. Does that that I would have just assumed that all those tools would be just the there’d be multiple ones that people have built because drones is huge. Yeah, well, we’ve got like the standard NATS website, which that’s always a source of truth. It publishes your no-tones, it’s just harder to visually read. Also, angel be very, very easy for like hobbyist flyers, for us to plan things, you can see it really, really, really clear. Whereas now it just means that you have to put in more effort to find things, which it’s fine, we can do that, but it is a little bit irritating at times when you’re so used to one thing, the comfort. Um, but everyone’s in the same boat, so it’s it’s all yeah. What um what is it you enjoy most, would you say, about the drones or what what you do? I think the wow factor of turning up to certain sites. I don’t know, I can’t speak as a man, obviously, but speaking from a woman’s experience, um, it’s quite hilarious sometimes turning up to construction sites because I will say this story, me and my old colleague Rasheen, I’ll have to send this to her so she listens. We turned up to a site that we’ve been to multiple times. We’d flown the drone, it’s actually Broadway East, is the project, it’s in Bethnal Green. So these steelworks, they’re old gas columns or gas cylinders, and they’re gonna turn into flats and they’re gonna look amazing. And we turned up once, and this guy was like, Oh, hi, what’s your names? We said our names, and he was like, Oh, you the cleaners? And I was like, No, no, we’re not actually, we’re here to do a drone survey. And he was like, Oh, okay, sorry, sorry, sorry. Anyway, we get we get all our stuff out, you whip the drone out, start piecing it together. Like I said, it’s big and it’s impressive, and then all the guys just sort of look and they’re like, Oh, okay, and we’re like, Yeah, this is cool, cooler than a mop in a bucket, like that’s brilliant, just classic. I mean, yeah, because you must get that a lot, actually. Yeah, definitely. Especially with my male colleagues, like throughout all my site works, even though I know what I’m doing and I’m a drone pilot, the client or whoever will always just sort of gravitate towards the guy. It’s not a problem. I don’t care at all. I’m gonna say, how do you deal with it? How do you deal with that? Um, I just stand there and I just smile because I’m a professional anyway, and I’m like, I know that it’s natural, like people don’t assume that it’s not the stereotypical thing. Like, I know things these days, it’s like, yes, women can do a lot of men’s jobs now, which is great, but the representation, like we were talking about earlier, like there’s not a lot of people posting about it. No, it doesn’t rhyme me up. I don’t get mad, I don’t get irritated. I just find it funny because then if they do ask, I’m able to tell them everything. Then they go, Oh, do you like do you want to fly then? I’m like, well, yeah, I was going to because it’s my job. It’s suddenly like suddenly they like, but and I love this because that’s exactly like throughout my whole life. That’s my always been my attitude. And I don’t know why, but it’s just reminded me of something when I was younger. Because I’ve always been heavily into cars, you know. I’ve I’ve embarrassing the amount of cars I’ve had. It’s like we women have handbags, I have cars. I love them. And I remember always getting taking cars to garages, and they were like, I said, look, I said, there’s something wrong with my, I had one of the original minis, and there’s something wrong with the brakes. And they were like, Oh, does it need new discs? I said, No, it’s not. It’s an the Austin Mini, it needs it’s it’s got drums. Are you sure? And I went, Yes, I am sure. Sorry, it was the opposite round. It had discs, and they were like, that should have uh drums, shouldn’t it? I said, No, it’s been converted, it’s got uh disc brakes at the front. Oh, are you sure? And they had to go out, they had to check it. And I’ve had this throughout with garages, like I always I understand, you know, I’ve I used to change smart plugs and things when you could do that with cars and the perception, and I just went along with it until the light bulb starts, and then they go, You talk, you I start talking about cars, and I go, Oh yeah, blah, blah, blah. And what about this? And they’re like, Oh, you know a lot about cars, don’t you? Yeah, yeah. Yes, I do actually. Surprise, surprise. But it’s better than that, than get because if you get offended, it’s not it doesn’t get anything. You wait for the penny to drop. Yeah, I find that way more entertaining as my own game, to be honest. It’s like more powerful, I think. It’s just you just wait. And also, yeah, it’s never ever bothered me. The only times where I’ve been really irritated at the lack of equality was on the railway when I was like, oh, so the women’s toilets, like, there’s a key. Oh, yeah, I haven’t seen that for 20 years. And you’re like, right? So where are we gonna go? Cool. But would you just squat down here? Oh, I’d love to go in the men’s toilets. Disgusting. Yeah, I’d love that. I just scot here, you know, just next to you. That’s fine. Uh yeah, yeah, there is a lot of that across all of all of the areas of surveying and the built environment and construction. Yeah, but that’s why it that’s why you stand out, I think, is because firstly, drones, surveying, there’s not a lot of that on LinkedIn anyway. Female drones, pilot, not none of that. I don’t even know. In fact, I think you’re the only one that I’m aware of that does anything on LinkedIn. I think. And I think, but it’s really important because it’s it’s drones that anyone can operate drones. Doesn’t it’s not it’s it it’s it has nothing to do with gender, but I think it’s it is my mindset, I think, with all of this, you know. I think there’s this is just inherent bias, is that there’s assumptions when you turn up, like you’ve been a cleaner, it’s like, why would you even think that? But it’s like just what they expect. I don’t know. Like an unsolicited turning up these two girls, what they’re doing, or they’ve got a van, it must be full of cleaning products and bleach. No, it’s full of US. No, and oh, I’d love to see an effects. You get the drone. It’s like this is not just any old drone, it’s like the mark, this is not just any old drone. This is must be like that’s more funny. It’s not just the little hobbyist ones where it’s like, oh, that’s sweet, look at them trying. Like, no, no, no. We’ve got the massive industrial commercial drone that’s gonna go all the way up, buzz around, make a big noise, and give you what you need. So what um have you got any sort of interesting stories or experiences with drones? The site variation for me is the best. Like I’ve done everything from like farmers fields, no one there, to like a couple of I think I did a town once that was called might be called Bolsham, perhaps. I think I did that with a fixed wing wingtra drone, which is this big orange one which flies. That’s actually I do miss using that drone, it was very sweet. It spoke to you, it was like forward transition and stuff like that, and it just carried like a little bird, flew around. So that was fun. And then a lot of the ones in London are quite good because it’s high intensity, high pressure, and you get a lot of multipath errors from the drone’s GPS. So it’s thinking because it’s bouncing off like the signals bouncing off the glass from all the tall buildings. If you’re on a narrow corridor and you’re flying, all of a sudden it might think, Oh, I’m actually three metres over here, like the wind’s pushed me or something. So it’ll then go woo like really close. So you’re constantly like bricking it. Yeah, bad. Okay, I have to keep, you know, like looking down, looking up. You’ve got your spotter with you as well. Uh, that’s always very fun. It’s nice when you’ve completed the job and you think, that’s that’s what I’m saying. What’s a spotter? Tell me what a spotter is. What’s that? Oh, so we have spotters with us who are most likely another drone pilot, but failing that, if everyone’s busy, it’ll be another surveyor and they’re just looking at the drone as well. If you’re just looking at the screen, like looking at the settings, they can be checking and they can say, Hey, we’ve got a bird, we’ve got loads of pigeons coming towards a drone, or just wait one sec before you land, there’s people around, so they help aid you in your drone operations. So it’s not just you. Do you have problems? Do you have a lot of problems with birds? It’s a sore subject so much this year. Oh, sure. Is it something I shouldn’t have said? No, no, it’s absolutely fine. I think it was tail end of last year. We actually experienced the first ever bird strike. I’ve never, and neither has my director, like everyone who’s a pilot that I know of has never had a bird strike, and we had a pigeon just go into the drone. There’s a flock that just rose and there’s nothing you could do. But luckily we’re on a roof, so and we put it in a position of safety because we’d seen those pigeons, hovered it quite low, and then pigeons went into the drone, it fell to the ground. It it we did have to get replacement. It’s amazing what one pigeon can do. Yeah, but yeah, that’s that happened. And other interesting accidents I’ve had, which I would make everybody aware of, is never trust your spotter, never trust anyone, also at the same time. That’s my number one rule. Make sure that you cross your T’s and dotted your I’s because when I was, I think, at the ripe old age of 20, which obviously was only a few years ago for me, I got so I was so confident in what I was doing. I was like, I know how to fly a drone super easy. I’ve set up a million times, and this was the fifth flight of the day with a spotter who I’ve had who wasn’t trained in drone ops, but he was able to like look at the birds coming in, whatnot. So, in order to secure the arms on this big DGI M300, you have to take the arm locks, push them in and twist them. Obviously, there’s four arms, it’s a quadcopter. On this fifth flight, I twisted mine and I’d walked away to get something else, and I’d assumed that my observer had twisted his ones. So I was like, cool, I know that I know that that’s done. I hadn’t checked. I started up, it got to four meters high before then one of its arms because it’s shaking all the time, basically, like that. The vibration made the arm like pop backwards and it swung into itself, and then this 10,000 pound drone just went on the floor and bounced. The camera that’s 5,000 pounds popped off, and I was like, I was like, oh no, like you know that’s what insurance is for, but it never feels nice. And I was like, Good god, what happened? Because I was like, as far as I was concerned, all arms were tightened, and I thought this is like a technical problem, and I never want to fly a drone again because we were within our operating limits, but I was also quite close to the A1, and I thought, right if that had happened like over there, like I know I’d only just taken off, it didn’t take long for it to go kaput, but it really freaked me out. Anyway, that guy since left quite abruptly, unsure as to the reason why. I don’t know why. I wonder if anyone can guess. Um, then the report came back and it was like the arm wasn’t secured, and I was like, right, okay. Okay. So that’s been a lesson for me. I think that’s the thing, isn’t it? With something like that that happens, you never forget it then. No, you don’t. And I was assessing, I was like measuring on Google Earth that my takeoff point was within the 30 meters away from things. It was secluded and segregated, and everything was controlled. I’d done all my done my checks. I’d said I’d done my checks, but yeah, it was a massive learning lesson. Ever since then, any job that I planned, I’ve been 100% like right. Worst case scenario, what happens? And obviously, if it’s out and about and you’ve done everything, then something does happen. That’s you know, that’s not your fault. Unless you’ve been negligent or complacent, then it does fall to you. So it’s tightened me up quite aggressively, really, from that horrific event. Does that mean you have a routine? Do you have a set of and not a personal one? We have like loads of checks that we have to do. We’ve got tablets with us that we whip out, and we’ve got like this software that we use called Centric, which is great. It’s very aviation-based, but it works super well for being really thorough in the drone worlds. And we’ve got pre-deployment checks, pre-flight, post-flight, takeoff and landing checks, daily checks, weather checks, everything. So you’ve always got to be a little bit more. Tell me about the weather. So these these heavy drones, nine nine kilos. I mean, because obviously we were we were talking about before I started recording, I had a little Mavic Mini, and obviously a little bit of wind, and it’s that was it. It was gone. With the nine kilo ones, the big ones, like what is sort of the limit? Do you have a set limit of you you shouldn’t take up in this in this wind speed or yeah, we do. So there’s wind in this gust speed as well that you’ve got to look out for a lot of people forget about that one. Like if they’re operating on the tolerance of the wind, chances are the gusts will be a bit more as well, which will push you over, and then that’ll make you non-compliant. Every single drone comes with its tech specs, its manufacturer’s guidance. A lot of the DGI ones, which I’m assuming most people use anyway, is like the go-to. They have a lot of stuff online where you can look at. But that particular M350 that we’ve got, it’s they say on the manufacturer’s guide up to 12 meters a second wind. However, a couple years ago it used to be 15, but a lot of people were like pushing it a bit beyond. So they’ve reduced it a bit in the hopes that people, if they do push it, it’ll only push it up to the 15 and not beyond that. So yeah, uh 12 metres per second, something like 26. Let me search. It’s hard to think of metres per second if you know 26.8 miles an hour. Such a good converter. On it like a carb on it. Yeah, not my first rodeo, is it? Geez, that’s embarrassing. Yeah. This is what you discuss when you’re down at the pub, isn’t it? Wow. That’s when you realize you’re actually a gigantic nerd, so yeah, I mean, one of the things I think we had mentioned, touched upon, was the crushing. Was is is that the story, the crushing of the drone, or is that was that something else? Yeah, my story of the crashing of the drone where I take full accountability is the one where the arms weren’t tightened. But elsewhere I’ve only ever known about maybe two or three. A lot of people tend to crush the really light ones, but they’re not major because they’re so light. He said that when he was just starting up a business by himself, he’d do a lot of stuff in cities in Manchester, and he was bringing his down, and again, the multi-path error just flung it into the side of his office building, and it like was then flying straight down on the glass. And he was like, I managed to recover it, and I just took it away. And I was like, Okay, so you didn’t report it, you didn’t do the protocols. No, I just went. Okay. So yeah, I mean, obviously, from my stance, my role, I have to be to the nth degree, make sure that we go through the correct reporting process, you know, submit all the safety stuff that goes with it and just archive it and what went well, what could we have done to constantly improve or avoid in future? Okay. But I know that a lot of people a lot of the drone people out here are really good. It’s just those people online, and I don’t want to say in case they’re listening, but um, they make me laugh. The guys who go to like National Trust and have like a body cam and go, I’m allowed to film here. And people go, Could you please not go? And he’s like, No, no, no, I’m I’m allowed, I’m allowed. And I’m like, I know you are, but you just painted us out now to be really annoying. Do you know what? This is ringing some bells. I don’t know why. I don’t I’ve I’ve I’ve heard something about this before. Yeah, I get random clips here and and it does make me giggle because yeah, from certain rules, he’s that they’re actually fine. I think it’s a guy, I don’t think I’ve seen any women do it so far, but there’s always time, guys. Maybe maybe it’ll be more than I was gonna ask how you deal and what you know what your experiences are with the public with drones, because I think I I don’t has it got better? Because I know I’ve I’ve heard stories a few years back where people get really upset, you know, especially, for example, you know, property surveyors were in built-up areas and people are like, you know, are you filming in my bedroom type type scenario? And people get really upset. Do you has this improved? What kind of scenario, what kind of things have you had to deal with? It’s changed. If anything, it may have got slightly worse from when I started, but you get a 50-50 when you’re doing something in a public setting with a drone. You either get a lovely person that comes up and goes, Oh, what are you doing? And you’re thinking, Oh, how’s this conversation gonna go? And you’re like, Oh, I’m doing a roof inspection with this, blah, blah, blah. And they go, Wow, technology is amazing. If you show the person as well, you’re like, Yeah, you can just you can see, like, obviously, it’s not confidential, it’s a roof. So you’re like, Yeah, this is what you can see, we’re down here. And you’re like, wow, amazing, cool, cool. Then you get other people who come up to you going, excuse me, can you stop flying? I’m gonna ring the police, blah, blah, blah. You don’t have permission to do this. I actually own this building. And you have to say, Well, I appreciate your concerns. You actually don’t own the airspace. A lot of people think when you build when you buy like a property, you own everything above, like you don’t. There will be a good reason why we’re all dressed up in high viz with our brand on the back of us. I’m gonna say you’re branded and yeah, yeah, I think yeah, okay. With our hard hearts on and everything. So you just have to calmly explain and go, look, if you have a problem, you can take it up with you go, you know, you go to the accountable manager who is in charge of all our permissions, which would be my director, and he can you can escalate it to him if you want. Usually they back away and go, Oh, okay, like you’ve explained enough. I kind of get it. And you can say, look, if there’s a time where you want us to come back and do it, you can sort of placate that, but you don’t you don’t really want to give people who don’t hold any power over your drone operation, like it’s it’s a risk balance, isn’t it, between information. Once a lot of people understand what’s happening, they usually tend to chill out a little bit. Yeah, exactly. But then some people can get very upset, can’t they? Yes. Some people can, and there’s been instances where me and my old colleague again, I’m talking a lot about my previous job, but it’s just because we had so many projects, we’d be out all the time. We did a power station in Gainesborough, and there was a couple of dwellings around the outskirts that we were taking a picture of to create a massive ortho mosaic, like a really high-detailed picture of the entire site and where they’re gonna expand and do stuff. So I wasn’t there personally, but my mates were there. There was a woman, I think, who was trying to chase them, saying that, you know, you’re taking pictures of my kids in the garden. And it went down that kind of route. And they were like, number one, there’s no one in the garden, but number two, like they will be phased out. Like, that’s not we’re not zooming in, we’re just literally creating a broad picture, which by the time you’ve like done one run and come back to the next one, they won’t be in the same position. So they’ll get like processed out, it won’t be like a common feature, your child’s top of its head. It’s yeah, so there’s a lot of a lot of those kind of people that take it super to the next level. But yeah, again, if you just explain nicely and if in doubt, just refer it to whoever had put you on the job, like your operations manager or project manager, then usually they’re happy with an explanation from someone who doesn’t look like a worker bee. But yeah, it just crack on. You know what I mean? Like they think, oh hi Viz, you’re obviously like on this kind of a level. I need to speak to someone, and you’re like, Oh, I see the same thing. I thought you meant it was actually what you look like, with the yellow in the true little wasps going around. Yeah, little wasp. Yeah, yeah, I’m just a wasp. This is uh if you want to you want to speak to the queen or high. That would be me. Jokes. How with the drones, how this might be a difficult question, but how how accurate are they? Does it vary on presumably on the type of drone you’re using or yeah, it varies on the type of camera that’s attached. Right. GSD stands for ground sampling distance, so that will determine how accurate your drone survey can be. So it’s based on when you take a picture with a drone at a certain height, the number of the GSD will represent one pixel of the picture. So you can older drones may have like, I don’t know, 20 centimetre plus. So for every pixel, that is 20 centimetres. But what we work to is like millimeters, so that then ties in really well with the standards of land surveying. And I think people can correct me if I’m wrong in the comments, but I think the M300 at 80 meters, you get one centimeter GSD using P135mm lens. So there’s loads of different things you can change, like the mil lens that you’re using, the height, the different drone specs, the you know, it goes on and on and on. But yeah, we tend to do, I don’t know, like a a decent one would be like a five mil, so a half a centimeter GSD, and then you get in a pretty decent model. Anyone can make a really nice one and pretty, but it’s when you zoom in that’ll obviously get further apart than you’re like, oh, can’t see as well. But yeah, of course. That’s a really good way of describing it actually. From a distance, it looks fine, but when you zoom in, it’s all pixelated and grainy. Yeah, a bit like Google Earth, and then it refreshes itself. Yeah, that’s it, like Google Earth. With regards to something you mentioned about going into your was it going to a school or something? Have you done anything around careers and spreading awareness? Yeah, I think I must have done about five different things that are to do with careers, like online Teams talk to year tens. I think I’ve been to my school three times now. Tomorrow may be the fourth. And last year I went and I did morning into early afternoon of showing year 12s, reception. I think like maybe if they were year twos or year sixes, um, like a live demonstration. It was summertime, so it was great. The drone out onto the field. All the kids were like, Oh my gosh, that’s so cool. And I thought, God, if that was me as a child, I’d have been like beeling going, I absolutely need to go on that career path because that that just looks awesome. Like it always is. If you see if you’ve never seen like a big drone take off and go above you, it’s such an awesome experience. So I was able to teach them about what I did and why you fly the drones and what data outputs you can get, which was really, really lovely. It feels like you’re giving back something because I know that, like I said, if that was there for me, I would have absolutely loved it. Yeah. I think that that can be said about so many elements, especially within with drones and drones and surveying has become such a thing. Like it’s become more and more of a a standard thing, depending on the type of surveying. I’m interested in your thoughts on that. Is is it something that you’ve seen that more and more drones are becoming like a requirement? I mean, certain areas of surveying, it obviously is a no-brainer, you’ve got to have the drones. But is it something that you’ve seen an increase in, or with companies or organizations you work with, or it might might not be relevant to what you do because it’s it’s clearly something that you have to have the drones for. But I don’t know. I’m just wondering anything that you’ve sort of seen or heard. I’ve seen a lot more companies like the big survey companies and also like medium-sized ones now go like the this is our fleet, we just bought this, just got this drone. So I’ve seen a lot more popularity in survey companies using them, but I don’t really tune into the demand for you need to have yes, yeah, sure. I don’t know. I think a drone one is I feel like there’s no sort of like simple way of oh yeah, I’ll just apply and I’ll just go that. You have to like push for it, and also you can anyone can be like a drone pilot, but to have the understanding and the survey background is a totally different thing to be able to use everything. Yes. Like I said, when I did my geospatial technician degree, I’m still pulling like knowledge from that into today’s sort of job. Like, if you are like all of a sudden you’ve you’ve never you’ve never learned about satellites, but you get into London and it may never cross your mind, you’re like, oh, I’ve got like 14 satellites. Like, why don’t I have my usual like 20 plus or 25 plus? And it’s because of your built environment, you’re thinking about where it would be best to take off from, especially with drones these days, they’ve got a lot of fail-safes like the return to home. So if it’s just out and about, for some reason your controller disconnects, it’ll come back to where it is. So you need to make sure that you’re also choosing like a good place where it’s not gonna be coming back and getting like errors and going, Oh, I need to go over here, and you’ve got no control over it. So, yeah, I don’t I don’t really know. I there’s definitely a way more popularity on LinkedIn, which is good to see. But I think a lot of people were sold the dream of when you buy a drone, you’re gonna make thousands and pounds, thousands of pounds, and you’re gonna profit really easily. But the way that all the rules are changing now is probably gonna be more costly than they think before they see it. Is it really? Is it making it harder? Yeah, I think so. I think it’s it’s limiting in certain ways the different categories. So we operate in both the open and specific category, which is like for the heavier weight drones. A lot of people like yourself and me with my little one, that’s the open category, very easy. You can pretty much fly, pretty much fly wherever you want. Obviously, yeah, space excluded from that. But yeah, we’re m everyone’s gonna be merging into the Sora way of applying now for your permissions, which no one’s done before, which is quite nice. Well, I say no one’s done before, like this year, people have had their applications accepted, which is great for them. But yeah, everyone’s been in the same boat. We’re trying to figure this out. It’s a different approach to what everyone’s been taught. And like I said, if you don’t keep up with the regulations and the changing stuff, you can be stuck in your mental thinking that I’m doing everything right when actually that was two iterations ago, and you should be changing and adapting. So I’ve definitely learned that you need to just monitor the constant changes of the CAA a little bit more. How yeah, is it is is it is it primarily the the CAA then that you keep up to date with things like that? Is that the main thing? They all they’ll be granting you your permission in order to fly. So your operational authorisation, be it the specific category, the certified category, they give you the go-ahead to operate under their regulations. So I see. Yeah, you’ve got to make sure you’re doing that right. Otherwise, there will be problems. There will be problems, yeah. It’s one of the things that a lot of I know that a lot of surveyors who are doing it in their own in their own firms, they they do struggle to keep up to date with the changes. I don’t think there’s one particular place that helps sort of relay it to surveyors, you know, drones and the the regs and everything like that. And I think it’s one of those areas that we could do with more information about, even, you know, some form of CPD and things like that. And, you know, something I’m looking at how, because I know so many surveyors that want to understand more about drones, what they can use it for, what when they can use it, how can they use it commercially, um, and what are the limitations of it, because it has changed quite a lot as to when you know you just get a little Mavic Mini up and there, you know, residential. It’s changed. Like I had first PFCO license, then it was GVC license. Now this year I’ve got my RPC level one license, which is like another iteration. So yeah, it’s just a constant constant change. I’ve just forgotten. Oh, yeah, there’s plenty of training academies, like Copters and Drone Pilot Academy, they’ve done stuff for me in the past and they really, really like help you help sort of break down what the CA instructions do. And there’s plenty of different courses on there for people, or to just inquire and ask, like, hey, I’m wanting to do this. What permissions do I need? Or what guidance do you have? Like those websites, they definitely have. So that’s Coptras. Yeah, I’ve heard of I’ve heard of Cuptras. I think I’ve seen them at events as well. What was the other one? Uh Drone Pilot Academy. Drone Pilot Academy. Because what I’ll do is with the, as I do with all the the podcast episodes, we include like links in the show notes to things that I’ve you know people have mentioned. So I’ll include links to those because that’s that’s interesting. Because here coptras is one of those that I heard a lot about. There should be no shame in admitting, like, do you know what I probably need a refresh, or I actually couldn’t tell you what I need. And I think the the CAA are so pushing on that just culture. And I think honesty as well, like it’s less of a dog eat dog drone world than it used to be when it was all coming out and people going, oh, I know this better than you and stuff. I just I just don’t see the point in that. It’s like let’s all just make sure you’ve aligned yourselves on what you need, yeah, and just don’t feel stupid about reaching out to people and just inquiring. Or if you do feel stupid, just say I’m asking on someone else’s behalf, and then you know, you’ll still get your answer either way. Yeah, no, that’s so true. There’s the yeah, I think there needs to be. I think it’s admitting when you don’t know things. I think some people can struggle with that, like ask asking the questions. Defo, which I think there’s just there should be no need for that really. I find it sad if people actually can’t admit, you know, if they’ve done something wrong or take accountability. Like that’s my number one thing. Like, hands up when you’ve done something wrong. Yeah, like I’ve just said out loud on this thing about my not typing the arms. I didn’t check it because that was a mistake that I made, and I hope that if someone was listening to this that they’d be like, Oh, do you know what? I will actually just double check and prevent it. It’s all about just making sure that you’re safe and you know, like I said, these drones have like spinning blades on them and they weigh a lot. So if they come out the sky, they are gonna really badly injure slash maybe kill someone. It’s not a it’s not a joke, like you need to a lot of people just go willy-nilly, ah, it’d be fine, it’d be fine. This drone’s not been serviced in like 10 years, and you’re like, hmm, probably should look into that then. Before we wrap up for today, is there anything else that you’d like to share? Anything else you’d like to sort of say about what you do, or whether, you know, do you recommend, you know, any any thoughts that you’ve got really? I absolutely do recommend it. Like I said, I can’t even believe that I still can’t believe it’s a job. When I explain to people, oh, what do you do? I’m a chief drone pilot. They’re like, and the only thing that people outside of the surveying world think of is just like, oh, like what in the army? Like, where are you where are you dropping your drones? And I’m like, no, not quite, not there yet. Not sure I want to be, but not dropping bombs anywhere. It’s like yeah, I know. I’m like, God, no, it’s just for photography purposes personally, and then yeah, for my surveying job, I think, yeah, that’s that always just makes me laugh. But it’s having to like go through and explain it and be like, no, it’s for this and talk about 3D models. But yeah, I I love it. I think it’s such a fun job. You know, it’s things that I come home when I go back to Nottingham. I tell my grandparents what I’m up to, and they’re like, wow, can’t believe that. And they’re then looking on like their BBC programmes, they’re like, This was flown by a drone, and it just is very sweet. It’s like my little version of the future I’m bringing in. It feels very, very, very cool to be a part of. Yeah, I think it’s like an early stage as well in my career. So yeah, that’s great. And that’s it’s been give it a go. Yeah, I mean, I I loved loved it when I got my drone. It was like just fun. And it was for me, it was just fun, and and I’m like, I I see more and more on LinkedIn today is now talking about drones and using drones. But they’re they’re talking about it like it’s I must admittedly like it’s just happened. Like you’ve had drones quite a while. And I think sometimes we’ve been talking about this, like, yes, we do know, but it’s I love to see an enthusiastic, passionate person on LinkedIn posts, because some of the stuff that people do, like there’s there’s a couple of people I follow that do all the FPVs, which is really cool. It’s something that I’ve flown, but I’ve not done it for like a job purpose, and I don’t really see it being used in a surveying world, it’s more of like a marketing, videoing kind of option. But some of the people they go to like trips like Iceland and they do like a promo for the entire country, and they’re going through lava, they’re going through geezers, and I’m just like, whoa, that would be that’s on my absolute to-do list at some point, but yeah, we’ll see when that happens. I’m sure I’ll be posting about it if I ever do. I’m sure you will. I’m sure I’ll see it. No time soon, suddenly there’s yeah, a volcano. Like bigger’s cross, yeah. That’s the train, and it just gets melted. I know, that’s what I was thinking. You’re going through these molten pieces of lava, and I’m like, you’re really lucky to be able to make it through that. Because I’ve seen other people in the past, it it’s hit the drone, it just goes straight in, and you’re like, Well, there goes a couple hundred pounds at least into the abyss. But you know, it’s a bit risk and I get a reward. So no, indeed. No, it’s it’s been I think you’re an inspiration, if I’m honest, Zara, because I think in different ways, I think you know, be a woman in this field, brilliant attitude as well. And just the fact that there’s nothing wrong with admitting when you don’t get something right because you learn from your mistakes, and then, like we say, you’ll never do it again. I think also the fact that you share What you do, you know, on social media, especially LinkedIn, and I think that’s so important because more and more people like you that do this, then you’re inspiring other people to say, look, this is what’s out there because it is incredible drones. It’s amazing. Some of the applications when I’ve some of my conversations I’ve had with some surveyors, and uh there’s one guy, and he’s used it, you know, to map out archaeological sites, you know. Yes, this is like fascinating. But in the Amazon LIDAR and finding all those hidden things that nobody on foot would be able to see from above because you know it’s like about the reflections, and that’s really cool. I love that. It is, it is, and I think it’s also there’s still huge opportunity for people to come into this space because there’s just still so many things happening and so many applications have increased, you know, to do with crops. I mean, I’ve you’ve seen them, I’ve seen them on like TV programs when they use them for for crops and all sorts of different applications. But it’s been a pleasure having you on here, Zara. I think it’s you are an inspiration. Thank you for listening to This Is Surveying. If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe and leave a review. It really helps more people discover the podcast and supports the work we’re doing to raise awareness of the profession. You can also join the Surveying Room, the free and independent community from Surveyors UK, bringing surveyors together, breaking down silos, and of course making surveying visible. Just head over to surveyors UK.com to learn more and join today. All the links discussed in today’s episode are included in the show notes.