From Bronze Sculptor to Building Surveyor with Victoria Collins

Speaker 2: 00:08
Hello and welcome. You’re listening to This Is Surveying, the podcast shining a light on the people, ideas, and stories shaping this incredible profession. I’m Nina Young, founder of Surveyors UK and the Surveying Room, the community bringing surveyors together, breaking down silos, and making surveying visible. So for now, let’s dive into our latest episode.

Speaker 1: 00:35
Hello everybody, and welcome to This Is Surveying. Today’s guest is Vicki Collins. Welcome Vicki. Hi, great to have you on here today. And I’m very interested in talking to Vicky today because Vicki’s interest and something that she’s working towards at the moment is building conservation. And as a lot of people will know, listen to podcasts. I love historical buildings. So I think uh this is going to be a really interesting, uh really interesting conversation. So Vicky is a chartered building surveyor for Ridge and Partners. And I think what will be really interesting is to hear your background, Vicky, because we’ve just been having a chat before we started recording. And Vicki has a very interesting background. And as many of you all know, so many surveyors literally fall into the profession later on or as a second career. And I think this is a really good and really unique example of that. So welcome, Vicky. So please tell us where what was your background and and then how it led into building surveying.

Speaker: 01:42
Yeah, so I went and did my undergraduate degree in drawing and applied arts in Bristol. So from that, I went and worked at a fine arts bronze foundry in Stroud for around eight years, making bronze sculptures primarily. Also worked quite a bit with precious metals, working for big artists, Damien Hurst, Sarah Lucas, kind of the big names that you see their art around the place. Did some amazing things, went out to Venice and installed artwork for Damien Hearst. I spent three weeks in Venice. And yeah, so that was what type of sculptures was it? What type was it like? Big, a lot of them. Um, yeah, so they’re predominantly bronze castings. And so what what I was doing was as a metal worker, the bronze sculptures are generally cast in more than one piece, and when they are cast, they don’t come out perfect. So you have to take those pieces, weld them together, and then you have to fix any imperfections. So that could involve, you know, taking off extra bits of metal and putting texture that’s missing back in, doing re replacing details. Would it be like sun, like I’ve done a lot of sanding? So much, yeah. Um down to you know, there’ll be sculptures which are mirror-polished when they’re cast, they’re rough metal, and it’s yeah, linishing it down, hand sanding it, polishing it. Yeah, so welding, grinding, sanding, polishing was it’s a really physical, a really physical. Yeah, yeah, it was. It was quite a lot of sitting in awkward positions for a long time, especially when you’re working on the big sculptures where you’re literally climbing over them. Yeah, so something really different.

Speaker 1: 03:31
Is it right? I when it’s it when you say it, it just sounds like it must be like a really quiet environment, like noisy. Yep. Is it really hot?

Speaker: 03:40
So it can be. It was definitely so really noisy. The other thing is bronze dust has a lot of copper in it, and so it turns your skin green. So I used to come home from work green, literally. Like Shrek. Yes, yes. I’m not saying you look like Shrek, but green. Oh my goodness. My partner used to call me the Hulk when I came back because yeah, you it would all be around your neck and your face where you’ve had like a dust mask on and you’ve had the ear defenders on, or where if you sweat at all, it would go green. And just washing that out constantly was a nightmare. But yeah, the heat-wise, certainly the one unit they had had the furnaces up the top and a couple of big kilns. If you happened to be in there on a hot day anyway, that was unbearable. Most of the units was getting really hot. Yeah. Most of the units weren’t didn’t have that stuff in it as well. But the type of buildings they were, yeah, they got hot and trying to ventilate them. There it was in the the foundry, is actually located in an old asbestos factory. So that was my introduction to asbestos, was starting to work there of yeah, a heavy warning when you started working that if there’s any damage to any of the walls, because everything, literally everything, was built out of the wall. This is what I’m thinking you because it’s vibration as well, isn’t it? Yeah, there is and we we were using gantry cranes a lot, moving big sculptures around, and yeah, sculptures have gone through those corrugated asbestos walls before, and there’s a whole procedure of you know, everybody has to get out of the area and shut it all off. Thankfully, not whilst there, but it has happened.

Speaker 1: 05:18
So a very physically demanding job then. Yeah. So what what what made you then move across to building surveying?

Speaker: 05:28
Yeah, so there were a couple of things. I after eight years, I think I’d kind of run its course in that job. I spent two years kind of as a workshop supervisor, so managing the the small metals department of about 20 guys. So I kind of got a taste of managing people. On top of that, I have Reynard’s disease in my hands, so that’s a circulation problem, essentially. Working with vibrating tools like grinders all day is also incredibly bad for circulation in your hands. There is a risk of something called white finger. My Reynard’s disease put me at much higher risk of having that problem, and I was getting some issues that essentially the the doctor told me to find a new job.

Speaker 1: 06:12
Yeah, you need to do something else. So you were kind of almost got forced into it, but you kind of had to make that make that move. But it sounds like even though with the progression up to management, you might have already to do something else.

Speaker: 06:26
Yeah, yeah, definitely. And that kind of around that time, me and my partner had bought our house a couple of years before, and yeah, we’d been slowly renovating it. So I’d started to learn a lot about the right way of working on an older building. So my house is a Victorian terraced house, made a lot of mistakes, but also so did all my line plastering myself because we couldn’t afford to pay somebody. So this wall behind me is plastered by me. So doing a lot of kind of hands-on stuff and really, you know, learning some of that stuff, and that’s where I got kind of interested in okay, so I like doing this. How do I turn this into a job without being the person on the tools all day, every day? Because that’s going to end up the same as doing the metal work of working with vibrating tools, working in the cold. So yeah, then I started looking for what jobs are out there working on on buildings and particularly historic buildings. Um, I’ve got a friend who works Clivedon Conservation. So we were friends from high school, and I think when I was speaking to her, I kind of was starting to because she’s she was stayed with me once where she went to do a job doing some conservation work on a staircase, and she was like, I’m cleaning a staircase with q-tips. And I was like, that sounds incredibly boring, but also really interesting.

Speaker 1: 07:47
Yeah, it sounds a bit tedious to me, but I can imagine the results very satisfying.

Speaker: 07:52
So she kind of she really got me interested in the historic stuff, and she introduced me to SPAB and yeah, kind of started me down that route. I still didn’t so for for the listeners, Mickey, sorry, what does SPAB stand for? Society of protection of ancient buildings.

Speaker 1: 08:08
Ancient buildings, yeah.

Speaker: 08:09
And this was but a lot of good things about SPAB. Yeah, love spab. Some people like don’t quite get it, but yeah, I can see that there are some it’s a philosophy of how they work. I I think it’s brilliant. And they’re all such friendly people and they’re just so willing for anybody to come along and learn. Yes. And this was kind of around COVID time, so this was around kind of 2020. So I had a bit of time to work out where I was going with stuff. I was only furloughed for a month, unfortunately. So I only had one month to kind of work on the house a bit and figure out what I was going to do with the next stage of my life. So, what did you do? What was the sort of qualification that you then went went on to do? So once I’d settled or I’d found what building surveying was, I started kind of looking where how you get into that. Isn’t an apprenticeship route, is it what alternatives are there? And I found that my university that I did my undergraduate degree does a master’s in building surveying, so that’s UI in Bristol. And because I went there as an undergraduate, I could get 25% off my fees, which made a big difference. I was fortunate enough that I’d inherited a small lump of money, which meant I could pay for my fees. Otherwise, I wouldn’t have been able to afford even the £10,000 that that cost to go do that masters. Um did you start on the masters before the before the work came into play?

Speaker 1: 09:33
Before the actual yeah.

Speaker: 09:34
So I was still working at the foundry. I negotiated to go part-time at the foundry and go to uni one day a week. I was very fortunate actually, I was only on the course for kind of four months when I got the job with Ridge. Excellent. So that and Ridge, once I was employed by Ridge, Ridge said, Well, we’ll pay for your your course fees. We want to invest in you. So that was that was really brilliant. Took a weight off me and meant that, you know, because I was obviously I took a bit of a pay cut to take a job on in building surveying, uh, because it’s something I had never done before, and I was, you know, a trainee essentially. So then have it balanced out when they were they were willing to pay for my course fees, which was yeah, really helping.

Speaker 1: 10:19
Great that you’ve got that. That’s really good and the support. So then you’ve and you’ve you’re chartered. Yes.

Speaker: 10:25
So so it’s all been no mean feat. A bit of a whirlwind. So I’ve been at Ridge just literally just over four years now. So in that time, I’ve completed trying to get my timeline right now. We’re 2026. It was 2022 that I I started at Ridge, pretty much signed up to the APC in as soon as I finished my first year of my master’s. So, because I did it over two years, you can register on your APC in the last year of your course. So then overlapped my master’s with starting the two-year APC, and then sat my uh chartership exam November before last. And yeah, thankfully managed to go straight through, which is that’s just awesome. That’s awesome.

Speaker 1: 11:12
You’ve come from something that’s what I would say non-academic in that sense, you know, foundry physical work to something that is much more academic.

Speaker: 11:24
And I know I’m I’m dyslexic. I’m very dyslexic. Part of the reason why I’d gone down the kind of art route at uni is because that I was terrified of having to do academic work. Because I just, you know, at art uni, I wrote maybe three, four essays of the whole time I was there and a dissertation. It was not my strong point.

Speaker 1: 11:47
I so coupled with that, and then you’ve achieved the the the child child ship. It’s like, how did you how did you navigate that?

Speaker: 11:55
How um thankfully technology has played a massive role there. So I’m sure most people have heard of Grammarly by now. Yes, it’s brilliant. Without Grammarly, I’m incoherent when I write stuff. It has been a life changer, really, of being able to, you know, help me get what’s in my head on paper and and write, you know, reports which do make sense. And because it’s such a big part of your roles. So that was that was does it get easier? Does it get does it get easier? I think it has. I mean, I spent, you know, the eight years I was working at a foundry, I was you know not writing anything, you know, couldn’t find a pen in my house because I had no need to write stuff down, I wasn’t writing any long emails. You just don’t do writing. So the more I have practiced it, the better I have got. My spelling is still atrocious. Thankfully, grammarly can normally work out what I’m trying to say.

Speaker 1: 12:53
But I always think of my my mum because my mum’s a sexic, and uh when we were growing up, I digress here, but when we were growing up, we always had some chores, and she’d write chores on the on the whiteboard in the kitchen. She’d we’d be we’d burst out laughing, my brother and I, because we’d come home and she’d write things like hover the stairs, hover. Yeah, we were like this, like hover, or vacuum the living room. Yeah. And because it was spelling, so we grew up with that, and so and she was very much like that adverse too, but it’s also it’s so common. So many surveyors I speak to across all types of surveying have dissexia. It’s a really common thing. So I think things like Grambly are amazing. How did it was there any other accommodations that you got? Because I I’ve heard of this with the APC. Is there anything that you didn’t know is done?

Speaker: 13:43
I did so I did request some assistance when for my interview. I don’t I think in the end I didn’t really need it, but it was I just wanted them to be aware of some of my challenges that might have come up during it. The kind of processing time that sometimes I need to, you know, think through a question before I answer. And yeah, there there was I can’t remember exactly what I asked for now. I think it was just that understanding that I am dyslexic if it’s if I stall all a bit or if uh if there’s if I say the wrong word, it’s that just to yes, you know.

Speaker 1: 14:24
I think it’s it’s that trans it’s that transparency in just being up front with it. And I think, you know, like you say, you didn’t necessarily need that, but at the end of the day, it really does help for understanding and how you come across, yeah, with with what you were doing. What I’d like to do now though is really explore the building conservation side. But I think maybe before that, I’d like to get an understanding more of of kind of what what do you get involved with day to day? I I know no day is the same. I’ve I need to stop asking that question. Describe a typical day because for a survey that doesn’t seem to be one. Um what kind of things do you do you do? Just and it’s really helpful for people listening, because I’ve I I only just last week had a a message from a a building survey student saying she’s been listening to the podcast, and she found that those building surveying ones are really helpful.

Speaker: 15:14
Yeah.

Speaker 1: 15:14
So I’m very curious.

Speaker: 15:17
So I’m the work area I work in is commercial building surveying. So typically not touching residential unless it’s owned by a company in some form. So, you know, we we do do social housing work, we do properties which are they might be owned by one of the Oxford colleges, but it is a res residential property. Um, but not, you know, we don’t go and work for a home buyer kind of thing. Yeah. But that does mean that we encompass a lot of different types of surveying work, and it is a uh so broad, most of my workload is more in the project management side of things. So running project designing, running projects, delivery, that is probably like 70-80% of my workload.

Speaker 1: 16:06
Does that mean you’re more office-based? No.

Speaker: 16:11
I think I’ve been in uh I’ve managed to sat down in the office for two half days so far this week. It’s I mean it it varies so much, but uh yeah, I I end up being out on site quite a lot. Just jumping between different site visits and and imagine that’s something that you enjoy. It does, yeah. It’s it’s part of the draw of being a survey was definitely that I’m not gonna be sat in an office constantly. It’s gonna be broken up. There are gonna be days where you’re out on site, there’s days where you know you can come home early because your site visits finished at fruit, and there’s no point going to the office for an hour. And that kind of flexibility that works really well for me. And yeah, makes it a bit more interesting knowing that you’re not gonna be the same place looking at the same screen every day. So yeah, but I mean for this variety sounds fascinating.

Speaker 1: 17:01
So describe the kind of sort of properties that you’re going to.

Speaker: 17:05
A real mix. So at the moment I’ve got a big project on, which is a 1980s police station, which is so a refurb project there. Yesterday I was at a 17th century old farmhouse, which is now an art centre over in Milton Keynes. So we’re starting a project with them, hopefully very shortly, looking at some repair works to that listed building and how we help them with some difficult funding issues there. Where else I’ve been this week. So we’re I’m working with St Edmunds Hall College in Oxford on their new development of student accommodation in pretty much central Oxford. So they’re building three brand new passive house buildings and a deep retrofit of a Victorian villa on one site, and I’ve been doing quality monitoring services there. So thankfully, not involved in the design. Explain what that is. What’s the quality monitoring? So it’s a the contract is a design and build contract. Yeah. It’s in the kind of 60 million pound range, it’s a big, big project. And obviously, because it’s design and build, the architect is contractor side, not really client side. Although you know they’re working for the client, they are, you know, they’re getting paid by the contractor. So the I’m there to basically be an independent set of eyes to inform the client of anything that I think they need to be aware of in the technical design and also the standard of workmanship on site. So I was doing kind of monthly site visits and producing a report of, you know, I’ve reviewed all of the latest drawings, the proposals, these seem reasonable to be, or I can see these problems. And also that, yeah, going around on site and kind of almost like an ongoing snagging of just going, well, is that gonna work? Really? Are you sure about that? And just bringing up those kind of questions and making sure that there’s that kind of independent set of eyes having a look at it and protecting the client’s interests that they’ve got a building which is gonna last for as long as they say it’s going to, and and is so I guess with that in that well, we’re not in all the situations really.

Speaker 1: 19:30
The communication side must be really important.

Speaker: 19:34
Yeah.

Speaker 1: 19:34
Do you do you would you agree?

Speaker: 19:36
Yeah, yeah. And that’s that’s probably been a massive change for me, is yeah, having to have kind of sometimes quite difficult conversations with with clients and with with contractors and other stakeholders. Um, so yeah, that was a big learning curve is how would you have these kind of conversations?

Speaker 1: 19:54
Yeah, I can imagine. And I guess a lot of that is you develop those skills through through experience as you go along. Because I would imagine, as most surveyors always say, you know, every day is a school day, you’re learning something new all the time. So I think if which is one of those things I think if you’ve got that kind of passion and desire for learning, I think surveying is a very good fit.

Speaker: 20:18
Yeah. And yeah, because it’s so broad as well, you can always be learning something different. There’s just there is a never-ending supply of things that to learn.

Speaker 1: 20:27
Is there is there any particular project you’ve worked on building clients that really stands out or that was fascinating or unusual?

Speaker: 20:39
I had last summer, I had a brilliant project where we it was just such a great team with it was for Oxford City Council, no, Oxford County Council, sorry, re-roofing a listed school that they had with natural stone slates. So it was my design and I was project managing it from inception right through to handover. The contractor we had was a brilliant heritage roofer, so they really knew their stuff. They were amazing at kind of teaching me a lot of stuff, really open to you know share knowledge and and help us get the best outcome possible, really collaborative. It was and then the client, who’s also a building surveyor, the the contact, so she kind of understood the process really well and was um you know there to work with us. And we just we just had a really great time. It was um we had some pro progress meetings could get sidetracked quite a lot.

Speaker 1: 21:42
But that’s it’s interesting that because that’s what it is a really a really good example because I’ve sort of asked you something that stands out for you, and what’s coming across from me is uh surveys of property, you know, uh and the bill environment and things, but you’ve kind of talked about the people. Yeah. It’s like the the pe the stakeholders, th those people involved in that. And and that stood out for you. Yeah, that’s made that made that project enjoyable.

Speaker: 22:08
I mean it was it was a beautiful building. And it was great to be, you know, doing that work with a listed building. But yeah, it was the what made that project brilliant was just that we had such a great team that we worked so well together. And yeah, we were able to provide this primary school with a a roof which isn’t going to leak for the next 50, 60 years, hopefully.

Speaker 1: 22:31
Yeah. Fingers crossed. I’m sure. I’m sure. I’m sure everything will be fine. Um, so with regards to building conservation, um, I think you mentioned before we started you you’re you’re doing a qualification in that at the moment, is that correct?

Speaker: 22:46
So again, Ridge, my company have been really supportive in my ambition to become an accredited surveyor in conservation, and they have agreed to support me going back to uni yet again to do a master’s degree in historic conservation at Oxford Brooks University, taught with Oxford University as well, so it’s kind of jointly taught. So I’m I’m just coming towards the end of the first year of that out of two years. So again, part-time. I’m there one day a week during term time, and then the rest of the week is obviously doing my normal day-to-day work. So a bit of a squeeze on the resources. Oh, it’s how you’re finding it.

Speaker 1: 23:27
Yeah, that’s yeah. It’s brilliant. You sound a great employer, by the way, everybody. So you sound great.

Speaker: 23:33
Yeah, I mean the workload is is difficult right now. Obviously, the the understanding was if they’re going to support me doing this course, I’ve still got to keep up with everything. And you know, doing essays is in my time. But that was that was the agreement I was happy to do because I I love it so much that I’m willing to do that kind of, you know, spend my weekends researching and writing an essay. But yeah. So what do you love? What do you love about it? The the course and it’s just, I mean, partly again, the people is you know, conservation does attract a certain demographic of people who are really interested to learn from and get really nerdy about stuff, but I love that. I don’t know what you mean. Not me. We had a lecture on um just timber decay, basically. So, you know, beetles and fungus. And it was so interesting. You wouldn’t uh most people probably be like, What?

Speaker 1: 24:30
But yeah, no, I actually see online, I’ve I’ve seen it online the the surveying room community I’ve got, but also like on LinkedIn and other places, and you’d see someone’s spotted. I can’t remember what this beetle was called, but apparently it’s really rare, yeah, really rare to see them. And if everyone’s excited about it, yes, yeah, because you normally you just see the is it the flight holes or whatever they’re called and the the the sort of the dust.

Speaker: 24:52
Yeah, yeah, trying to work out which one is it, and you know which one is it? If it’s this type of timber and uh the decay is in this part, and yeah, that kind of you know, following the thread and can I work out what the problem is and then what how do you sol solve that problem as well in the right way for the building? And yeah, so that kind of getting nerdy is probably what I loved most about the the course.

Speaker 1: 25:16
So is it’s almost like a curiosity, a desire to learn, and then problem solving. Yes, yeah.

Speaker: 25:23
I think I mean problem solving, I think I’ve always known that’s what I like doing.

Speaker 1: 25:27
Yeah, yeah. I think that’s really, really like one of the mainstays of surveying is that these it’s that desire and curiosity to want to solve a problem. Yeah. And you know, like a dog with a bone, it’s got to get to the root of that.

Speaker: 25:41
I just can’t put it down sometimes. And it does, you know, sometimes it does mean that you’re you’re staying up at night trying to work out how a detail is going to work or um, you know, how do I fix something? Just because yeah, the brain just can’t leave it alone. I just need to work out, even you know, even if it’s just something I’ve seen once I’m walking down the street and I’m going, well, how would I deal with that?

Speaker 1: 26:01
And so Bill is is building conservation, is it is it quite a small in in your experience, a small area? I think surveying.

Speaker: 26:10
Yeah, it does seem because it I mean it obviously goes wider than just building surveying the conservation stuff, you know, you you have the architects doing it, structural engineers doing it, and and the tradespeople who obviously that’s where the wealth of experience is in conservation, is the people actually doing this stuff. Um, and they kind of feed it back to us a lot of the time. But the world of it does seem relatively small, you know, everybody kind of knows each other, and from the the conferences and talks I’ve been to, I am normally seeing the same people and I starting to recognise those people. So yeah, it’s it is quite a small world, but you know, there’s so many traditionally built buildings in this country. So even if you discount the ones which are just listed, it’s I can’t remember what the stat is, but majority of our buildings currently standing were built before 1920. So it’s it’s a huge amount of buildings which need that kind of understanding.

Speaker 1: 27:08
It’s like when I think, because I’m I’m based and I I come from York, so um, I’ve been I absolutely love my city, medieval city and Roman city. So we’re very much spoilt in, you know, I think being brought up in York and then also in the Dales. So there’s very diverse properties, lots of Victorian towards the Harrigate area that I grew up in as well. With regards to sort of honestly, like you say, the diversity of properties is vast, and everyone, a lot of people tend to have a favourite type of either or build. Do you have one?

Speaker: 27:44
Do you have yeah, I well, I know the ones I don’t like. Probably I I do I do like a lot. Don’t you like? I’m not a fan of Georgian properties, to be honest.

Speaker 1: 27:56
Interesting.

Speaker: 27:57
I don’t know quite what it is. I just the the architecture doesn’t really speak to me that much. I think if anything, I’m I love vernacular buildings, that kind of the really humble, you know, some small cottage somewhere with uh an old patch roof or you know cobhouses. Yeah, yeah. So down south you get the cob houses and that that kind of buildings made from the local materials and really speak to their local environment on the smaller scale, the kind of you know, the the everyday scale. But I I’m I do just love most older buildings which have got a bit of character to them. It’s that’s that’s what it is. It’s the character, isn’t it? The no straight lines, and it’s just the the you can see the history in them, then you can kind of see, well, what’s this building seen? What’s caused, you know, if you’ve got marks somewhere on a bit of timber framing, you like like what was the person who was doing that? What were they thinking at the time? And it’s it’s kind of that demonstration of passage of time, and and I just yeah, that idea of can I see what those generations of people back were doing and how were they using the building? And and we’re still standing in it, which is incredible when it’s a building which has been standing for like 500 plus years, and you’re just like this is this is incredible.

Speaker 1: 29:15
Yeah, I can certainly that certainly resonates really strongly with me. I love historical buildings, various buildings. It’s funny because I I actually like Georgian and that’s why I was finding that quite amusing. Um, I like the what’s the word, the symmetry of it. Yeah, I think that’s what I yeah, I can the shambles and the role. Yeah, yeah. So it’s I don’t like straight lines.

Speaker: 29:37
Oh about how the monkey and uh yeah. I went to uh Kilpeck Church in Herefordshire last weekend, which is a 12th century church. It might be 11th century, and it’s just you know, it’s it’s a very, very old church, but it’s got these amazing carvings which are just absolutely mad. They’re like just weird, fanciful creatures. All this the cobble table all the way around is just these completely individual carved mad animals out of some stonemason’s fantasy, and it’s just that was just amazing. I just absolutely blown away. So much detail and everything, isn’t it? Yes. And you’re like, oh, we just we just don’t build like that anymore. Nobody’s doing that.

Speaker 1: 30:19
No, even everything from because I’ve did some posts on LinkedIn and things about because I love you know doing quirky things or historical, you know, you know, things from a past. And I’ve come across, you know, like even like Victorian toilets, but if it was a bus stop, but there’s the basically everything, even it’s the pump rooms, what works, and they’re just it amazingly beautiful, and we will never ever create that again. Yeah. And you look at bus stops now, or you look at things, and you just think, and even bins, even if it’s so utilitarian and just yeah, functional. It is so, so dull. And the uniform, and then we’ve gone through all these different types of architecture because I always find that fascinating. And you’ve got the brutal, you know, brutalist, you know, era and so different and so harsh.

Speaker: 31:12
Yeah, but I just one of the last essays I submitted a couple of weeks ago for my masters was comparing two different 20th century buildings, and I was looking at two different factory buildings. So I looked at the um the Hoover factory in Perryvale and uh West London and the Boots D10 building up in Nottingham. And so those buildings, the Hoover Factory is a very Art Deco building. It’s lovely, absolutely beautiful. It’s been it’s no longer a factory. Have a look at it. It’s been refurbished, it’s now flats, and it’s got a Tesco’s built on the back, which is mock art deco. But the front of it is still very much as it was, and it’s it’s an amazing building, like yeah, very 1930s jazzy coloured. Um it looks like it should be a cinema kind of thing. It’s it’s beautiful. And then within the same time period, I think they were built within a year of each other, you’ve got this building which was the Boots Wets factory up in Nottingham, which yeah, is very much it’s not quite, it’s not brutalist, but it’s definitely modernist. It’s it’s big glass facade with concrete, yeah, concrete slab, and and it’s yeah, that it mad that kind of contrast of there was this one factory saying, Well, it it wasn’t just a part of why they built this lovely Art Deco building was because they were advertising themselves to the people driving past on the new roads. But they also, the architect who was known for doing these kind of factories, talked about how it’s better for the worker to be working in in a place which is beautiful. Um, and very true, yeah, and and kind of that it’s got, you know, it’s got manicured lawns out the front, and he spoke a bit about you know how that affects people’s you know willingness to go and do quite a monotonous job. But then on the other hand, you’ve got the boots building, which the architect actually had some of the same kind of he wanted to make it light and airy, so that’s why it’s all glazed and and it was you know functional. And so yeah, they they were both coming at designing their factories from a how do we improve this for workers, but certainly for the Hoover building, they were going, well, it should be beautiful, which you know resonates with kind of what Mill William Morris was saying about having beautiful factories as well, of you know, give people nice places to work and they’ll work harder.

Speaker 1: 33:38
So see, this is just really interesting. It’s it is, it is when you start diving into things, and I’ve I’ve I’ve done it all my life with historical buildings, you know, and yeah, I’m a big, big fan of stately homes, and I live not far from Castle Howard, which is happens to be my favourite stately home as well. I just feel so spoilt to be able to go around these places. And I you constantly like when you go to I think historical buildings like it’s when you go to the like the servants’ quarters. I love that just as much as the fancy room rooms. Yeah. Because it’s like these the culinary, the the sculleries and the kitchens are just it’s fascinating. And you’ve got these flagstone floors that have just been eroded and they are so old and they’re still there. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker: 34:19
Definitely have a good lifespan on them and hard wearing.

Speaker 1: 34:23
So would you I mean, would you as a as a career, would you I’m assuming you probably say yes here, would you, you know, recommend building surveying to somebody if they’re thinking about it.

Speaker: 34:32
Yeah, yeah, I think I definitely would. I mean, it’s not without its challenges. It it is, you know, it’s a job. You know, they’ve all got their ups and downs, and and certainly there are difficulties in it. I don’t know if it’s the same across all surveying sectors, but the workload is a lot, and sometimes you do have to be on top of that kind of work-life balance a bit to make sure you’re not getting burnt out, but as a satisfying job, which allows you to, for me, certainly scratch the need to solve problems and and design things. Yeah, I think it’s a brilliant career for anybody.

Speaker 1: 35:09
Yeah, I mean, I would definitely agree. Absolutely. It’s fas it’s fascinating. And I I love the fact of the variety, and this is very common across all types of surveying. I think building surveying is definitely one of those, though, where it’s very varied. Yes, yes. Especially, you know, because of the the nature of the clients and the buildings that they own. With regards to do you ever get involved in I think you actually might have mentioned this, uh, uh, churches?

Speaker: 35:33
No, so I haven’t. Churches are something somewhere I would like to be involved probably more with, but for obvious reasons, the dioceses tend to want you to have the conservation accreditation before they’ll let you work on churches. So although I’ve briefly, you know, there we looked at a project with somebody in a church in Gloucester, uh, kind of looked into the requirements and said, you know, we don’t meet those requirements at the moment, but we pass that on to a another surveying firm in Cheltenham that we we know and we’ve done some work with, and they they took that project forward and they’ve done a print job with it. So that was um, I think just some repairs to some fairly ancient stonework.

Speaker 1: 36:18
The requirement for this, this so this accreditation is obviously very highly regarded then. Yes, yeah, very specific to have this. Is that the same for other areas?

Speaker: 36:29
I don’t think so, no, because normally for for most of surveying, once you’re chartered, that kind of ticks that box. But yeah, the the conservation accreditation is and for most things it it’s what you um I wouldn’t say it’s a requirement for doing most work, but it most if you’re doing a tender for National Trust or something, they’re probably going to want you to have it. Um it’s like the gold stars. Yeah, yeah, would you say it kind of puts you above? Yes. And I mean it does create those kind of I guess it narrows down the amount of people who can apply because although within Ridge, I’m I’m just starting on my journey to do the conservation accreditation. But even when I’ve just got my masters, that’s not enough. It has to be then either the RSES conservation accreditation or what I’m gonna go for is the IHBC, which is the Institute for Historic Building Conservation. Conservation. Um their accreditation. So you have to have another step on. So although at Ridge we’ve got we’ve got architects who have got masters in conservation, that’s not enough. There’s still got to be another step after that.

Speaker 1: 37:40
So you can do it in different routes. So that you can do it down the RICS route, they have that route, and but there’s also the IHBC as well. Yeah. As an option. I’m just just uh understanding it just for people listening who who may have thought of it.

Speaker: 37:56
And there is another option, I can’t remember what the acronym for it is, the the Institute of Building offer one as well. For surveyors, there’s basically three options to to go down. My my preference is the IHBC, because the the RSCS one, the submission is very much the APC again. So you have to do an interview, you have to do a full submission. Um, IHBC is and then you also you have to re-accredit every five years, so you have to resit that every five years, which is gosh, quite burdensome. Whereas IHBC, you do one written submission and it’s basically based off that. So you don’t have to do an interview. Once you’re fully accredited for IHBC, that’s it, you’ve got it for life. Just as long as you keep paying your fee. So yeah.

Speaker 1: 38:40
Right. So how long? So you’ve got have you got another year left, the master’s or is it a bit longer?

Speaker: 38:45
Another year on my master’s. Well, it’ll be a bit longer because I’ll have my dissertation as well to do at the end.

Speaker 1: 38:50
Um so it will be uh you’ve just and what what is the dissertation? Have you decided that yet?

Speaker: 38:55
So um, so they they’ve changed it as well. So it’s not you can do a formal dissertation or you can do what they call a capstone project, which I think is a bit of stepping away from doing an academic paper and more into something a bit more practical, but I haven’t got that far yet. I there was um I had a a couple of ideas floating around, but I’m you know, until I start writing it, I won’t really know what I want to do it on. Certainly what I found in my last masters was you know, I changed my my mind about three times before I’d got past the first paragraph. Yeah, I see.

Speaker 1: 39:30
Well, well, well, I mean, you’ve you’ve literally gone like in in what four years from doing sculpting, giant sculptures, going to Venice and yeah, and Damien Hurst. That’s impressive. Something I did want to bring back up after before we started recording, you mentioned I am jumping back, but you mentioned that you’d done something with silver. Yes. And I think that’s interesting. What was what was that?

Speaker: 39:58
So yeah, it was more Damien Hearst work, but yeah, for the last couple of years I worked at the foundry, I worked in what was called the precious metals department. So look, doing less of the huge things that you need, cranes to move around, more smaller stuff, but the biggest of that small stuff was a sculpture which was made out of solid silver. It was for Damien Hearst a mermaid with her hand up like this. I think it was about three meters tall in total. It was, yeah, quite a weight of silver. We did calculate how much that silver was worth, and I can’t remember now, but it was a lot. A lot. And yeah, that was mirror polished all over. So it that was a team of kind of three of us working on that solidly for a couple of months. That was a challenging job because silver doesn’t weld very nicely. But does it not? No, is it not? It’s it’s awful for welding. It um yeah, just tries to melt away from you. But yeah, moving it was challenging, but there’s there’s ways around it. There’s you know, we get aids in to help move things in particular ways, and you work on it in chunks and only bring it together at the end. Um, and so that was the kind of the biggest precious metals I worked on. And then as I said, we I worked on once I was able to work on a piece of I think it was 24 karat gold, but it was about this big, a little figure, and it was something ridiculous, like of thousands of pounds worth of gold, and I’m there drilling into it, and and you had to collect all the sweepings, obviously, because they’re worth a lot of money. So you have to sweep it all up and put it in a bag so it can get reprocessed and not mix it up with a bit of dust, you know. Yeah, yeah, you have to keep the desk very clean if you’re working on the gold. Do you do you miss any of it? Do you miss any of doing it? I do sometimes. I miss certainly if I’m having a very stressful day where the upside of working in the foundry was you know, my hands are doing the job, but my brain could be listening to a podcast or an audiobook, or you know, and also it’s a job where at the end of the day, once you leave, it you can’t do it at home. You can’t take that work home with you, it’s just done. So you switched off. Yeah, and I do miss that sometimes when I’m you know, you’re getting email after email coming in, and you’re out in sight, so you can’t respond, and things are kind of yeah, that kind of workload is backing up, or there’s just problems which everybody’s coming to you for the answer to. But I know overall I’m happier doing this, and I find this more satisfying, yeah, overall than going back to that.

Speaker 1: 42:35
No, that makes complete sense. I think we all need that, but it the the switching off, doing something that’s just mentally demanding. I I experienced the same thing, and I’m like, I just need to go out and dip have a walk or something, or go to the gym, or to be able to switch off because when you’re doing something physical, it’s just you can’t you can’t beat that, just your mind just doesn’t is not thinking and it’s just you can just relax and offload.

Speaker: 42:56
When I started as a surveyor the first couple of eight even months, it was so much mental energy, I found it so exhausting. Compared to having done, as you say, quite a physical job for eight years. I found those first few months doing surveying much more tiring just because of the mental capacity it took to be constantly learning and constantly taking on new stuff and and thinking through problems all of the time.

Speaker 1: 43:24
Yeah, I can just yeah, I can I can relate to that. Yeah. And it’s it it it it’s that when you’re so mentally tired. I mean, there’s a difference between being physically tired and mentally tired, isn’t there? Yeah, definitely. Massive difference. There’s a massive difference. Is there anything else before because we’ve kind of come to the end, but that you want to share before we uh sort of sign off today?

Speaker: 43:46
I guess the only other thing I haven’t mentioned on top of everything else is On top of these amazing things you’re doing. Um So I’ve got I I got given Nashia an apprentice to take on as well. So I’ve got um George working underneath me as my kind of helper assistant and also helping him go to he’s going through the apprenticeship route with UBE. I keep wanting to call it USEM, it’s not anymore. But the University of Built Environment.

Speaker 1: 44:15
Yes. So that’s kind of taking a while for everyone to get used to that.

Speaker: 44:18
Yeah. And I wasn’t even ever involved with them before they changed their name. And I’ve still got it ingrained in my head. But yeah, so that’s that’s a kind of additional a challenge and a help. George is a brilliant apprentice. He’s really helpful. But obviously that’s another layer of I have to take on going to these meetings with his uni people and helping him learn at the same time that I’m learning. So we go to uni on the same days, and I’m like, Well, how was your uni day? And kind of compare notes.

Speaker 1: 44:48
Oh, yeah. That must be rewarding though, because you’ll you’ll be seeing him go through like a similar journey. Yes, yeah.

Speaker: 44:54
The same things, the same kind of questions. And seeing him starting to, you know, really find his feet and surveying, and he’s just starting to take more of a lead in some roles on projects. And that’s yeah, it is satisfying to kind of see him progress.

Speaker 1: 45:11
I think apprenticeships are just so important and we need we need more of them. Yeah. More firms taking on apprentices. I I don’t know what you think, but I think it’s such an amazing route in Yeah, there does need to be, there needs to be more places for it.

Speaker: 45:25
I know Ridge takes on quite a few apprentices, but in I think it was last year, the applicants for the apprenticeships, they had over 2,000 applicants. It was an incredible amount. So yeah, it was George and Ed, who’s the other apprentice in the office. You know, they they were the top of the bunch to come through and and get picked. So yeah, there needs to be more spaces out there.

Speaker 1: 45:51
So that suggests to me, that’s interesting, that’s a really interesting stat actually, because that suggests to me that, you know, we talk about the need for more people to be aware of surveillance of career, etc., etc. But clearly, that many applications, the problem is not the awareness and the desire, the problem is the firms taking them on. Yeah, there needs to be more places for them to go.

Speaker: 46:11
Yeah. I mean, that was that was across the whole of Ridge, all of our multidisciplinary departments. So it wasn’t just buildings there, and it wasn’t just Cheltenham buildings there either. But yeah, it’s that’s a lot of young people looking for their next step. And ultimately, there’s only so many that Ridge can offer. But yeah, more places need to be doing it, and particularly the big firms where we’ve got the capacity to do it. We’ve we can offer the the right kind of variety of work for these people to get a wide that’s the challenge, isn’t it?

Speaker 1: 46:44
Especially because you do need experience in certain areas, especially like building surveying. Yeah. And you need to have those experiences across before you can actually qualify. And I think that’s one of the challenges. And I think it’s also resourcing. I think it’s time because a huge proportion of um RSES uh firms SMEs. And so a lot. And SMEs can be big, don’t get me wrong, they can be sizable, but it’s getting the time, you know, the commitment to literally support, like you say, like you’re doing with George. It’s, you know, and some firms struggle with that. And I think that’s I think that’s something that needs to be worked on. But I think I do think that I think my understanding is some new funding things have come in, which actually give even more funding towards apprenticeships. So I think going forward, something that I want to be sharing on Silas UK is is apprenticeships. Because I think it’s it’s such a good way to get in. And don’t get me wrong, I did a degree in university, you know, and very much an advocate for that. But I think the costs and what you can come out with cost-wise and student debt, which many people will never pay off.

Speaker: 47:47
Yes, I think apprentice. My undergraduate job. My undergraduate student debt, I looked at it the other day, is it’s either £100 less or £100 more than when I left university over 10 years ago. So it’s it’s not changed. And I was on the the lower fees. Yeah. Yeah. Because I I’ve never until recently I’ve never earned enough to really make a dent in it. So yeah, and and like I said, that’s on the lower fees. That’s not on the £9,000 a year fees. That was like £3,000 a year.

Speaker 1: 48:15
Yeah. There’s no incentive, I think, with student learns to actually pay it off. So many people I know that just they said no, we’ll just do the minimum and then I’ll be paying it until I retire. Yeah.

Speaker 3: 48:25
Yeah.

Speaker 1: 48:26
It’s scary. Well, look, it’s been lovely talking to you, Vicky. I really enjoyed this conversation. It’s just fascinating to speak to someone that’s come from being a sculptor in metalwork to a chartered building surveyor who is then going to go on to be the chartered building surveyor in conservation. And the fact that you’ve done that in that what I would say is a short period of time, going from something non-academic straight into something very academic, with the dyslexia thrown in, dyslexia thrown in, getting a job in one of the leading firms in the UK is just an incredible feat. I think it’s really impressive. And I think you’re a really good example. How there’s a lot of people that think I can’t do it. Don’t get me wrong, I know it’s really hard. I think there were so many that they think about it. I have people asking me this question most weeks, you know, how hard is it? You know, can I do it? And yes, you I think most people can, and you’re a really good example of that. You can do it, but it requires a lot of determination. Yeah, and I guess you need the passion and desire for it.

Speaker: 49:31
Yeah, it’s you need to be have that energy to keep putting into it day after day. I mean, it the time of the the on the uni courses goes quite quickly, and the APC flew past, but yeah, it whilst you’re in it, it’s it is you know, day after day of just keeping showing up and spending your evenings or your weekends learning and and doing that uni work or writing your APC submission. It’s yeah, it’s time and and effort putting into it. I think anybody can learn how to do it so long as they they yeah, can can afford to put that time into it.

Speaker 1: 50:09
Commitment and resilience and consistency, I would say, to keep just keep going out. Yeah, have a structured, I would say having a structured, I mean, you know, dealing with the the demands of work and studying, having a structured routine every week almost, trying not to let things slip.

Speaker: 50:24
Yes, yeah, trying to keep on top of it is yeah, yeah, one of the biggest challenges.

Speaker 1: 50:29
Impressive, impressive, Vicky. It’s it’s been really I’ve really enjoyed this and uh and I I I am a little bit biased because I love um historical buildings. So I’d be interested. We’ll have we’ll have to have another chat. Yes, time or something, or even less than that, to be honest, and see how you’re getting on and uh how things are evolving. Yeah, yeah, they shouldn’t. But but thank you very much for today. It’s been a pleasure. Thank you very much.

Speaker 2: 50:53
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