David Coplin-Chard on building a modern surveying brand and why soft skills matter.

Speaker 1: 00:18
I mean young standards survey today and the surveying room, the community bringing surveys together, breaking down silos, and making surveying visible. So for now, let’s dive into our latest episode.

Speaker 2: 00:35
Hello everybody, and welcome to this is surveying. I’m your host, Mimi Yo, and today’s guest is David Coughlin Chard. I don’t know if you’ve got that role then.

Speaker: 00:46
No, it’s all right. I’m used to that. Coplin Chard is one that comes up a lot. It’s like it’s C O P. There’s no C H. Yeah. David Coplin Chard, yeah.

Speaker 2: 00:54
David Coplin Chard. And David is a residential surveyor. And I first came across David on LinkedIn. I think he’s one of the rare surveyors out there that does brilliant social media. He does a video, uh, great posts, and I think he’s got a great brand as well. But I think this is a good one to listen to. And but without further ado, welcome David.

Speaker: 01:20
Hi, thanks for having me.

Speaker 2: 01:21
Yeah, stupid to have you on here. I’d like to sort of get to know a bit about your background because having seen your videos and things, you’re you’re quite a rarity in the surveying world with your marketing and that. And I’d like to understand about a bit more how you became to be a residential surveyor.

Speaker: 01:38
Yeah, yeah. So my background was I came from estate agency. So I did that for about eight years. I started in 2011. So worked at a tiny little independent, which I had no idea at the time, but probably just put me in a good position for becoming a surveyor because I was never pigeonholed. It was never like you just do sales, that’s it, or lettings. I was sat next to the boss. I was within the first six months, I was doing viewings, whether it be lettings, sales. After about a year or so, obviously getting used to the area, doing valuations, I was doing the sales progression, check-ins, checkouts on lettings, property management. So I was in a very small company, kind of just soaking it all in. And I loved it. Obviously, like for anyone in a state agency or you know worked in property long enough, 2011 is probably when it just started to come out of the shadows from um the financial crash. And then everything really kicked on in 2014. So yeah, those um I was quite fortunate, pure luck of like time in getting into the industry for it being busy and just being like a sponge and soaking it all up. And then I got to the point of being like, I don’t really want to, I don’t really want to be doing this forever. And I was kind of at a bit of a crossroads. And it was the classic, again, old school practice as a surveyor in working out of one of the other office, back offices. And he said, um, oh well, like what about surveying? I said, um, I never went to uni. I I I think I’ve probably missed the boat on that. And he basically stuck a salva like leaflet under my nose, looked into it, seemed good. I considered going on a conveyancing course, and I thought as much as I think I could get through that, I was also like, that’s just not a bit of me. I like looking at the properties, sitting behind a desk and just reading the leases isn’t gonna fulfill me in the long term. So yeah, took the jump to do Sava. So yeah, that was just like a little bit of my background into like how I came in for surveying. Yeah.

Speaker 2: 03:48
Yeah, no, it’s always interesting to hear because that everybody comes from so many different backgrounds. And I think it’s really good to talk to you today because of your estate agency background. I’d be interested to kind of understand how how you feel being an estate agent and moving across into surveying might have helped you.

Speaker: 04:08
Yeah, yeah. I think a big thing I’m like you say, a lot of people, because SAB has kind of opened up this kind of field to people from all backgrounds coming into surveying. But I think estate agency is definitely one of the backgrounds that gives you the good soft skills for surveying. You obviously need to learn the technical knowledge, how properties are put together, how they will perform, not just now, but how they’ll perform in the future. All that building pathology stuff. But nothing can prepare you for when you turn up and the vendor’s a bit off with you, or the occupants a bit off of you. They’re telling you your normal order of starting or going room by room, uh, they’re telling you no, you can’t do that. And you have to think on your feet. I think by being an estate agent, you’re comfortable with going into people’s houses because you’re doing viewings or valuations. Yeah. So you’re not just walking in doing a survey and standing in the middle of the room all sheepish. You kind of have to go in and I guess for want of a better phrase, be polite, but you’ll wear the trousers, like you’re there to do the survey. And by being confident, you’ll actually put the occupant at ease as well.

Speaker 2: 05:18
How do you deal with someone that’s kind of a bit a bit off? I’m sure you can do a lot. Yeah, a bit difficult.

Speaker: 05:25
Do you know what? I’ve not actually, I could I probably have had it twice. Right. And I had one where do you know what you tend to start for me anyway? You start to not rise to it and you go, there’s something else actually that’s causing you to be like this. And sometimes it might be that you’re trying to. I I took from a personal experience I went around the property, and straight away, like they had obviously looked me out, and they said, Oh, you’re you’re the owner of the company, you’re the director. What are you doing here? Why one are your surveys? And really like front foot, like aggressive. Right. And I said, Oh, well, I only like do a select few properties, you know, if it’s a direct referral, you know, try and calm it down. Like, do you know what survey’s about? This is what I’m going to do today, and blah, blah, blah. And a lot of just trying to shut me down, and a lot of saying, Oh, well, you’ve only been doing it like five years. So, like, just all and it was because it was so personal, there was that bit in me going, like, don’t speak to me like that. But it was, but it, but it’s that slowing down and going, I guess this is part of that crossover with a state agency, like and negotiation, is they’re probably just trying to throw me off a little bit. So it was like, okay, they’re clearly not wanting to engage in conversation. And I can just say to them, well, look, why don’t I just I’ll go around and do my thing, and then I’ll be out your hair. But yeah, you you kind of have to go um in in that instance, anyway. I thought, yeah, you’re probably just trying to get in my head because you’re really nervous. Do you need this sale to go through and you don’t want me to find anything? Ironically, it’s kind of reading the room, isn’t it? Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Just reacting. I mean, ironically, there when it happened, I thought, you are you guys are definitely hiding something. And actually, it was quite a nice house. There wasn’t really much wrong. And I spoke to the client afterwards, and again, uh something I’m big on is like clear communication, just speak normally. I said to the client afterwards, I was like, when you ever did a viewing, were they ever a bit off with you? And they said, Oh no, on the viewing, they were nice as, but now you say it, we wanted to do a second viewing, and apparently they kicked off with them, didn’t allow the second view in and stuff. So it was like, okay, it’s starting to paint a picture that they’re probably just quite nervous and they’re probably just quite desperate for this sale. But in in them trying not to show that or to protect that, they’re probably making it more obvious. So um, yeah, it’s um whereas if I had just gone, I don’t need to speed spoken to like that, I’m walking off this job. Well, that doesn’t help the client. No, it doesn’t help any of the process. So yeah, it’s it’s those kind of soft skills. And it’s not just about like, like I said, in five years I’ve had it, but that is once. Good, actually.

Speaker 2: 08:08
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker: 08:09
I I guess maybe I’m the lucky one. Um but you know, it it’s stuff like dogs, it can be, you know, working from home environments. People say, Oh, I’m I’ve got this meat in, so I need you to do this room like now. And yeah, you’ve got to be able to go fine. That’s not my normal process, but you know your methodology, you’re disciplined enough not to be distracted, not to be wobbled, and just to make it work.

Speaker 2: 08:30
So, do you think, and I totally get it, by coming from an ascended background that will give you really strong soft skills, communication skills. Do you think there’s a lack of that though, generally, as in for newly qualified? Do you think there’s enough out there or training around the soft skills? Or do you feel it’s just something you’ve got to learn by doing?

Speaker: 08:53
Uh do you know what? Yeah, I would I I think the easy answer for me to be like, oh, there’s not enough training on it. You can’t train it. No, no, those two situations are the same. You just have to learn by doing it. And I’m a big advocate for that. Like, not like learn, not like fail, learn, apply, because you don’t want to be going on survey and constantly failing. But uh, but you but but you need to just get out there and and learn it. And I think sometimes it can be um uh certainly of an older generation, I’ve seen in my experience anyway, there can be like a bit of narcissism or a bit on their high horse, it’s like I don’t have to engage with this. And certainly one of my mentors, actually, he was so knowledgeable, so good. But sometimes when I would go out and shadow him with him, and he would be like, maybe the vendor was actually being nice to him, and he’d be like, sorry, I can’t speak to you, you’re not my client. Um, and it was like I like you you’re not disclosing anything by just being friendly. Um, and I think that’s maybe what there wasn’t a lot of in surveying, yeah.

Speaker 2: 09:59
But I also I think and and that’s a really good point because I think if you imagine if thousands and thousands and thousands of surveyors are taking that attitude every day to go, you’re on my cloud, be very blunt.

Speaker: 10:13
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2: 10:14
And there isn’t there isn’t a need for that. What’s that person’s perception of a surveyor? Yeah, it’s not great, is it? And and so it’s I think sometimes, and you will probably understand this as well, is that sometimes I think surveyors they their attitudes and their approach can go against them. And it goes if if there’s many doing the same thing, it can go on to marketing and branding. But if you’re not adopting certain things, it has a massive knock-on impact. Because if that one experience from that homeowner is negative, that will always stay with them. Yeah, that’s rude, miserable, you know, other. And then in the future, maybe when they have children, like, oh yeah, well, if you get a surveyor, but yeah, you know, now on the on the other, on the other side. I don’t know what you what your thoughts are on that.

Speaker: 11:01
Yeah, I I think it it crossed over. We actually last year, with like the CPD we provide for the surveyors, I did have this moment of thinking, well, we do a lot of CPD on crack, damp, you know, roofs and stuff. But it’s actually like communication and soft skills. So we did we did a load of CPD last year on like report writing, so that can that person just read and understand what you’re talking about? Does the report flow well? Because you can have all the knowledge up there, go around and be the best surveyor in the world, all the initials and the alphabet name. But if that’s just like verbal diarrhea on the page and all the that and that person doesn’t understand it or it doesn’t flow well, it’s no good. That person’s gonna come away from that experience going, I feel a bit intimidated, or I didn’t really, I don’t know what I’ve got to do there. I don’t know what the outgoing advice for me was to do. Similarly, with just how you converse with people, I think there’s always this having come from an estate agent background, this like estate agent versus surveyor. And it’s like you’ve got you’ve got the really good perspective there from you’ve got both sides.

Speaker 2: 12:09
Yeah, yeah. And I think I mean how do you see that? How do you see that? Like, what’s your views on that?

Speaker: 12:14
Well, obviously, you can’t like if I now speak as the surveyor, like you can’t be going in to and if you’re the estate agent going, yeah, Nina, oh God, that house was a nightmare, or yeah, that house was lovely, not like because but then you’re starting to divulge in a bit too much information. But in the same way, I feel like it it’s well, we have to do it really. If if if I go into a loft, there’s an occupant, and I see the the cold water tank is overflowing, bulging where it’s not been drained down properly, um, and it’s about to kind of collapse. If there, if there’s an occupant there, I should go down and tell them, like, because that’s serious health and safety. Like the same can be said on stuff like that with when you’re going back to say drop off keys to an estate agent. Like, you you can go back, and if if you’ve already told that vendor of that leak, or if I say like top water tank example, uh, tell the agent, in my opinion. Like, you’ve not disclosed anything like material, in my opinion. I’m still gonna then get in the car, call the client and say, look, this is as a whole what I found, and this in particular. But most clients, whenever I’ve dealt with it, if I’ve got into an agent and said, Yeah, pretty good house. By the way, I did get some damp there. I think it’s called by caused by that leaking gutter. I’m obviously gonna have to report this. So why don’t you now start getting your like prepping your vendor to be aware of it? I’ll then speak to the client and say, overall, all right, found this damp, probably caused by that leaking gutter. I’ve given the vendor a heads up about it, but all the photos and the advice will be in the report, and I’m here to talk through it with you afterwards when you get the report. That communication chain has been so much smoother rather than what most surveyors do, and I saw it as now the estate agent back in the day of coming in, giving you the keys, going, Yeah, no, that was all right. Bye. Right. And that’s it. And so I then, as the estate agent, sat there and gone, okay, well, that was all right. The vendors maybe called me up, or I’ve called the vendor and say, Yeah, survey happened, like we’ll wait for the results. But you know, David gave the keys back and he said it was all right. And then suddenly you get the client, or no, that in in that case it would be the buyer calling up and saying, Oh, there’s this wrong, there’s that wrong. And that’s again when the frictions start to happen and chains can sometimes unnecessarily break down, in my opinion.

Speaker 2: 14:30
Uninformed. I mean, you can I know surveys can’t divulge, but you’re not able to prep that client. You’re not able to help mitigate everything blowing up. Because if you’re pre-warned almost in some ways, I guess it is a balancing act, isn’t it? But managing, it’s all about managing the relationships and managing that chain.

Speaker: 14:50
Yeah. Exactly. And I mean, we’re as surveyors, our our our point isn’t to, if I look at it very bluntly, like our point isn’t to get that chain over the line. But at the same time, we I think we do have a responsibility not to scare a client away from buying what could be their dream home because they’ve misinterpreted a report or because the vendor’s got their backup and now suddenly our client is compromised because our vendors or the vendor that they’re buying from has got their backup and pulled out from them. Like just by keeping that smooth communication helps everyone.

Speaker 2: 15:27
Interesting to get that perspective from both sides. Yeah, I think there’s I think there’s areas of improvement for both sides in that whole process, isn’t there? Yeah, and the willingness from the estate agent side to almost want to have it’s like that, like you say, there’s that whole friction. I know many surveyors that work really well with estate agents and many that don’t, and they don’t communicate. You know, it’s it’s constant. And I think if that whole area can you imagine, if that whole area was managed a lot better, the knock on effect that would have to be actual when it comes down to it, the members of the public who are buying the same houses, yeah.

Speaker: 16:05
And obviously, smoother, wouldn’t it? It’s something that’s oh, you know, going through consultation at the moment with the whole home buying and selling process. But the biggest thing, even in a state agency, I used to do it is you know, you’re the one that’s offered and your offer’s been accepted. It’s like, okay, Nina, I need your solicitor’s details, which are mortgage broker’s details. And if you’re gonna get a survey, I need to have it. It doesn’t have to be booked within the first two weeks, but I want you to tell me who your surveyor is going to be, and maybe you book them for advanced because you don’t want it maybe before your mortgage offers come in. If you’re getting a mortgage, it just sets out the whole process so much better. It means also if it is gonna fall through, because there is something major, well, then we’ve not wasted like between estate agents, solicitors, surveyors, buyer, seller, no one’s wasted 12 weeks to then find that out. And that’s something I now see, and we have to try and manage as surveyors is telling clients when they’re calling up for getting quotes like, get the survey booked as early as possible. It’s never great, and it’s always a recipe for disaster when a quote comes in and they say, I need someone ASAP because we’re due to exchange. It’s like you’re you’re only doing this as a tick box exercise, and then you’re asking as surveyors to rush, and you’re not gonna give us a pass if you move in and then there’s something wrong and say, Oh, yeah, but to be fair, David, I didn’t need it quickly. Like you’re still gonna come back for us. Yeah, getting a survey just late on in the process is just never good. Never good.

Speaker 2: 17:36
Never good for anyone, is it really? Your social media, your videos. Yeah, I’m interested to sort of get your your input into sort of how important it’s been for you and why you do what you do with the social media and maybe explain a bit about what you do, because uh not everybody is necessarily on LinkedIn and has been and seen your uh your work and also around the importance of of brand and and marketing, because uh from my perspective of years doing marketing for surveyors uh in the past, uh I do think it’s an area that needs a a huge, a huge shift into the to mod into the modern world. It’s not something that surveyors do particularly well. So I’m curious because I think you do it well, I’d like people to hear more about what you do.

Speaker: 18:28
Yeah, so I mean, we kind of spoke about it previously, and like mates would laugh their heads off saying that you say that um I do social media well because I’m actually as far as like personal, I’m so anti-social media. I don’t I I think there’s so many negatives it has caused with society and the way people think and stuff, but it got to a point where with growing the business, it was like, well, uh the these platforms are for businesses, they are your shopfront to consumers. So, you know, it’s not there to be posting selfies or what your lunch is, it’s to be your shopfront. And for for me, it it was more business related. So I didn’t I I know there’s some fantastic surveyors out there that do stuff like TikTok and Instagram really, really well. But for me, in and at the time when I started picking up LinkedIn, I had no idea how it worked. The main drive was getting our name out there to like other professionals in the industry. And also from where I came from. Like I came from, like I said, an estate agency and had to retrain in the Sava background. So it was like, yeah, well, if I can put some of these videos onto LinkedIn where there’s going to be other Sava students and they can learn a little bit from these videos, well, one that gets our name out there, two, I’ve helped someone on their learning journey. And that’s kind of how it started.

Speaker 2: 19:52
What is it about, would you say, the importance of the branding for you? And sort of how how do you tend to go about it? How did you sort of come up with the brand, I guess, and you know, and and maintaining that as well constantly all the time.

Speaker: 20:09
Yeah. I guess from like origin story, if we if we call it that, I remember sitting down with our website guys, and at the time, my so I worked for a firm for just over a year, doing a lot more high volume work, and I thought, okay, well, I’m I’m kind of ready to take the punt and go on my own. But I did have this thing, I didn’t want it to be just DCC surveyors because I did, I felt there is no brand for considering how obsessed we are with house prices in this country, we love to look on right move at what the neighbor’s house is on for, what their kitchen looks like, what their extension is they’re doing. We’re obsessed with houses. And so, for such a part of the process, which is so common, there’s no brand for it. Uh, if you pulled someone from the street and said, Mina, you’ve just had your offer accepted. Who is the estate agent? We you would know it’s gonna be either very prominent in your area or it’s gonna be a national. And what surveyor are you gonna use? Most people would answer, I’ll go to Google, or they’ll say, Well, the bank does that, don’t they? Like, there’s no one in and in the surveying circle, we know of the big corporates, but they’re not brands to David and Nina on the street, who are just average Joe home buyers. So basically, going back to the question, I um sat down with the website people and I was like, well, I want something where if if this never takes off, then I’m fine just being one man band under this name and it be about me. But it’s something where it it’s it sound big. Like we are that standout brand that people go, I’ve just had my offer accepted, I need a survey, let’s go to Landview. It just yeah, there’s not too much to it other than it sounded big and it rung off a tongue.

Speaker 2: 21:57
And it does, it really does sound big. And I this It’s it’s interesting you made that decision. I think it’s a great one because I I’ve I’ve pushed back with a few studies over the years where they’ve they’ve wanted to name it after them. You know, and to me, okay, fine. I guess if that’s all you’re ever going to do, as in you’re not going to grow and stuff and be bigger, which unlike you. But also I think it’s I I do think there was a perception in this day and age that it can be quite old school. You know, you have a lot of law firms, accountancy firms, even old school, that it’s after the partner’s name.

Speaker: 22:34
Isn’t that true but doesn’t that step into a bit what we spoke about earlier? Like there’s I guess a crossover a little bit with like facilict, or it can be an insurerism, lots of other industries. There is that old school like narcissism there. And I’m not saying that everyone in these industries are narcissistic, it’s not that at all. But that there is that thing of like, I want my name above the door.

Speaker 2: 22:52
Um, some of it is ego-driven, yes, it is not all, but some of it is. And I think every Savair has every right to be proud of what they do. And you know, that’s why I do this. I think Savane’s amazing. But I do think that especially if you grow, suddenly you’re stuck with a name. So locally, there’s a really good example with this aging agent, and she’s called Amy Brooks. And when she first set up, Amy Brooks got a face on the side. See her everywhere, she’s doing really good. And I was like, oh no, it’s just and then literally just totally rebranded. So now it’s Brooks because she doesn’t want it just associated with her because clearly she’s growing and doing really well. Yeah, yeah. And that’s a really good example of that happens because your name suggests established, it suggests size, bigger. And once and you and it’s memorable. I think these kind of names, people will remember it more than DCC surveyors.

Speaker: 24:01
Yeah, uh a hundred percent. And but I was also perfectly comfortable in being like, if this never is more than just me, and I mean, when I first started, yeah, I was doing ridiculous hours. I was waking up at like 5 a.m. to aren’t because I felt like I can’t be answering quotes and bits and pieces at like 9, 10, 11 o’clock at night, because people think, what is this absolute maniac doing emailing me at this time? But it’s such a weird psychological shift that if I emailed someone an answer to their quote at 5 a.m. or 5.30, they think, wow, this guy’s really productive. So I used to break up my day by getting up and doing all the answering the quotes that came in after hours in that like 5:30 to like 7:30 window. Go out and do my job. So I’m out then whatever it is, nine to about 11 or 12, get back home, and then just following up on emails. I’m not touching writing the report, following up on emails, trying to do a bit of um BD, so like business development stuff, talking to agents, sending out invoices, and then only at like six when no one’s expecting a response, I would then pick up, say, six o’clock to nine o’clock at night, writing the report that I saw that day. And it was that cycle, but I it was like definitely not forever. So yeah, it was a that’s a long day. Yeah, exactly. But it was at that point, if even if at that point it had just been me doing that and my mum just answering the phones just to take that bit off my plate, I would have kept the name and it would have been fine. But it it was it was the fact that it was really resonating with whether it be solicitors or estate agents and mortgage brokers, to be fair, with like what I was trying to do, and then was just getting with zero marketing like spend, like didn’t spend a penny on marketing, just getting word of mouth, and people just naturally finding us through Google, never heard of us, but just found us through Google because the not ratings, reviews were going up, and it was pushing us higher just naturally.

Speaker 2: 26:00
So yeah, it was just asking about reviews, David, because that’s I get some surveyors that don’t like reviews, they don’t even get reviews. And I I get it that some of them have longstanding, got a reputation that they’re known and they get referrals like and working for years. But a lot of surveyors I think don’t want to get reviews because they’re worried about getting a bad one. Everybody gets a bad one. There’ll always be someone, you can never please everyone, it just happens, it’s it’s it’s like what what are your thoughts on the importance of of reviews, especially like when you’re starting out or you know, growing?

Speaker: 26:36
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, it’s crucial and it’s never like you never complete it. It’s crucial from day one when you start in any industry, and it’s crucial for the entirety of your life, no matter what size you end up going to. It’s something you like you, in my opinion, you you never stop, you never hold back on. Um, and if there is an opinion of someone going, no, I don’t want them, then the business is gonna die because other people, where you’re doing this, other people are just gonna carry on going and you’re gonna be lost. People have too much access to information and data these days. And yeah, you know what?

Speaker 2: 27:12
How do people check you out, you know, when they get in touch?

Speaker: 27:14
Do you know what we we got instructed on one recently, a very, very big job, like millions of pounds purchase price. And I, in all honesty, before like, so I spoke to him on the phone before going around just to see what his concerns are. And it’s always quite nice for me when I go to those kinds of properties to say, Oh, how did you find us? And I was fully expecting it to be because I got referred from this person or that person with the calibre of property it was. And he was very honest. He said, Look, I’d love to say there was something more scientific behind it, but I just Googled you and that was it. And so that again is very, I guess, in in my eyes, confirms what you were saying. Like, if he’d just Googled and I’d never bothered, and as a company, we’d never bothered like pushing for reviews, then we wouldn’t have got that job. He he found us just by searching online, and yeah, with with regards to like I see it as a very butt burying your head in the sand mentality if you don’t want reviews, because also I want someone to tell me when something’s wrong, because that’s how we fix it and we learn it.

Speaker 2: 28:21
Because if you don’t find that out and then they talk to lots of other people, it it has this massive knock and effect. Whereas if you give it open the doors and they they come back and they they’re not happy with something and they give you a negative review, you can actually respond to that and manage it because a lot of it can be down to many things that isn’t at the surveyor’s fault. Yeah, it can be misunderstanding, you know, and who’s responsible for what? And I think a lot of a lot of that needs to do to be addressed. What I’d like to also ask about is still on the branding side, do you like wear branded clothing or do you brand anything like this visual? I always ask Chris, I’m very curious. Yeah. Because I’m trying to remember when I’ve seen your work when I’ve seen your your brand, but I think I have.

Speaker: 29:10
I was gonna say, I’m like bad timing not to be wearing it now, but where yeah, so all of our surveyors have like their branded gear, even in the office. I mean, they’re not forced to wear it, but they’ve got their bits and pieces. Um even just here, we’ve got whether it be land view bottles, we’ve got land view umbrellas, tote bags, squishy houses. My five-year-old stepson’s scribbled all over this one, though. Yeah, like all like these bits and pieces, because it’s that’s in my mind where you subliminally like get into people’s minds, just walking around the property and having your stuff on. The vendor maybe isn’t like conversing with you loads, but they’ve had the phone call to say we’re booking in Landview. I’ve turned up at the door and said, Hi, I’m David from Landview. They’ve seen me walk around and they’ve, you know, I’ve got the logo on my polo. They’re seeing it. So suddenly then, I’ve not done any hard selling. When they go, Oh yeah, we’re at the point where we need a survey now, it’s kind of already in their head. I can’t remember what the statistic is. Is it like you need to see something like nine times for it for the for the for the memory to like?

Speaker 2: 30:18
Yeah, it it varies over the years, but it is between nine and twelve times that they’re saying now that the touch points, it was less, but I think a lot of it comes down to everyone’s so busy and you know, scrolls, busy, busy lives. I think you need more touch points these days. But that’s the point, that’s the one most powerful thing I think. When I I’m very much for many things, shop local or use local trades, that’s you know, rather than national, that’s what I like to do. And so when I see literally in the village I live in, a guy called all over his van, the gas man, yeah, yeah, you’ll never ever forget that.

Speaker: 30:56
Yeah.

Speaker 2: 30:57
You know, to go if I’ve got a problem with a boiler.

Speaker: 30:59
Yeah.

Speaker 2: 30:59
Because I constantly see him around the local town. And I think, you know, you’ve got another one called um Leaky uh Wayne Leaky Miller in his he’s a plumber, you know. And I think sometimes a name and also the brand and presence, and I think it’s good. And I’m not surprised you said that because but there’s there’s a lot of surveys that don’t want any branding, they don’t want people to know they want to turn up, you know, in the tweet suit and apply to them. But it’s it’s all that perception, isn’t it? Also, with regards to uh communication with your potential clients and things, how do how do people get in touch with you mostly? Do they message, do they phone, do they email? Sort of how does your communication channels tend to work?

Speaker: 31:43
Email is like the big one these days. I mean, we will every now and again, I guess it depends on that the age of that person buying. It tends to be like picking up the phone. I don’t think it’s any secret that younger people these days don’t like speaking on the phone. We’ll see it a lot sometimes, even when we’re even quoting for a uh we will have an email come in, and we always first point of call is you do not respond to the email, you call them first. Because that’s where you know surveying has this opaqueness to it, where sometimes you can get instructed as a surveyor and you’ve never even heard the client’s voice. Client’s never even heard your voice, never seen your face. All there is is an email trial saying, What’s the quote for this? Here’s the quote, do you want to proceed? Yes, here’s your survey after they’ve then done it. That’s it. It’s all like it’s just not human. So we always call first before then emailing. And but yeah, you can tell when someone’s like of that younger generation because you’ll call, there’s no answer, you leave the voicemail, but then they email you back straight away. Yeah, and I get people have busy jobs, it’s not just an age thing, but yeah, uh a lot of it comes through emails first directly through our website.

Speaker 2: 32:52
Okay, interesting. I think a lot of people can get some really interesting uh insights listening to this.

Speaker: 32:57
I think you’ve got to the biggest thing I would say jumping on that again, like you’ve got to be picking up the phones, people, because AI, of course, is well, I imagine, fast. Yes, yeah, exactly. And our I, I mean, we’ve done a fair amount of like secret shopping with building the business over the year, uh years. I’m gonna be biased, obviously, but in my opinion, from having done that bit of research, our office team is the best in the business. Like, there’s no one that you’re gonna be able to get as quick a response from, and there’s also helpful response from for people that can look at a floor plan, not be surveyors, look at a floor plan and say, Yeah, well, I can see that’s had that rear extension. What are your concerns with the property? You’ve asked for a level three. Actually, I don’t think you need a level three because of the age of it, looking at it, uh, condition-wise, unless you tell us otherwise, you could probably just have a level two, or vice versa. You’ve asked for a level two, but it’s probably this age, it’s had these extensions, it’s in this condition. You should be looking to get the level three. No one does that better than than our office team, in my opinion.

Speaker 2: 34:01
And is that is that I think that’s a really important point because I think you know, talking about soft skills and the importance, and that’s really communication skills, is is like I think it’s always underestimated and very it’s not talked about a lot in today, technical side, expertise, or you must know this, you must know that. But that whole this comes back around to our soft skills and communication in there literally at that point, reeling people’s fears will have these road authentic glasses on, thinking it’s just yeah, yeah, yeah, you know, it’s the property of my my dreams. And they’re asking someone to literally potentially cover that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. It’s such an emotive process, isn’t it? And you’ve got to really not deal with necessarily kid gloves, as they say, but you’ve got to be able to be adaptable, I would imagine, to every call. And I think there’s an underestimation of how to do that conversion. So it’s okay, everyone talks about leads, getting leads in, but very few talk about actually, yeah, but once you get the lead in, are you converting that lead?

Speaker: 35:06
Yeah, exactly. And each phone and each phone call can be completely different. You could have one of the girls pick up the phone, and the person’s really, really jolly and very easy to build rapport with. They put down that phone, they pick up the next call, and that person is very, very timid, very, very scared, very, very nervy. They’ve got to then alter their language. They can’t take that kind of tonality from that last call up here, spending with this other person, because it’ll probably just make this person’s nerves go off the scale. So you’ve got to kind of got to then come back down to be able to talk to them at their level, ease their concerns. Yeah, you that that’s that part of communication is like being able to build rapport with people and tonality, knowing when to speed up, knowing when to slow down.

Speaker 2: 35:51
Yeah, yeah. I think it’s it was really important, and it sounds like you’ve got a great team behind you.

Speaker: 35:56
Oh, massively. Like it everything here and for the future where we’ve like planned to, yeah, be that standout brand, is all because like that office team and the surveyors. It’s I grew up with my my dad being a gas engineer, and I used to go to work with him in like Easter and school holidays at like nine and ten. And I’ve just kind of grown up always seeing there’s that. If you take a trade, for example, you’ve got like engineers and then office, and the office are always going, oh, the engineers don’t understand what we have to do, and the engineers are going, oh, we don’t understand they’re not out on the ground, they don’t understand it. And it’s got to be harmonious, it’s got to be that like everyone’s on the same team, and yeah, like we’ve really, really got that here.

Speaker 2: 36:38
Yeah, that’s great to hear. It’s great to hear, and I think people uh need to take a leaf out of your book with uh a lot of the things that you’re saying because we are in that modern world. Um have you had any experiences around people with the chat GPTs defining you or or just what of your what are your perspectives? Are you seeing any sort of impacts in in your world yet? Because I’m not it’s not affecting necessarily everybody at the moment, but with regards to client, I know clients use it. I know employees use it. Um what are your thoughts on it, actually?

Speaker: 37:13
Yeah, I mean, I I think it is it’s obviously going to be a fantastic tool for getting rid of like some boring administrative tasks. I mean, yeah I remember being it’s still obviously, but such a big thing, like proofread the report before it goes out, because if there’s the tiniest of mistake, that can sometimes be the downfall to the example of if you accidentally called like first page, you’ve said this is a two-bed property and it’s actually a free bed. All that is is this okay, you hit the wrong key and okay, you miss it as part of the proofread. It has huge ramifications to if it’s delivered to the wrong client, because they’ll be like, it’s free bed. How do I trust the rest of the whole report? Which is extreme, but it does happen. And so with AI coming in and be able to look for inconsistencies or bits like that, of course, it’s going to be helpful. I think there will be then a cry for people wanting, yeah, like humans to be able to speak and converse and talk about the findings of a report, um, which is why obviously we’ve done so much in like doing CPD around the soft skills, communication and report writing. Making sure the client can just leave that report going, I know what to do now. But yeah, we’ve definitely had experience of it with clients. Like, we’ll sometimes get a quote, some kind of request, and they’ve literally just copied and pasted from a chat GPT type of thing. It’s got all the same layout, it’s got all the same bullet points, sometimes it’s even got the same emojis in it. And it’s it can it can be quite dangerous because then we’ve had to do this kind of training with the office staff to be able to look when that comes in, that’s got to be that little bit of a red flag that this person needs to be really like spoken to to understand what a survey can and can’t do. Like, don’t just input questions into a chat system and send them to us because there’s gonna be differences, like limitations, restrictions, and stuff. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly.

Speaker 2: 39:17
I guess so much about I think so much about what what surveyors do, and they probably underestimate that, is the importance of that education with with people, making them understand what X is and what’s Y is, and you’re getting this and not that. And I think that’s such an important part of that. I think we’ve got challenges with. And I think you know, there’s a lot of uh, you know, uh evaluation is not a survey, you know. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I bet you must hear that.

Speaker: 39:44
Yeah, yeah. Well, and and even from my years as an estate agency, like, yeah, it was it’s it’s not gone. And I I think I saw someone post obviously about the RICS producing more kind of video content for like consumers, and that kind of goes back to that social media element, like, well, then if if if they’re not gonna do it with all of the other stuff the RICS have going on, why don’t we just do ourselves? Like, why can’t the individual surveyor do that video to do it so that they can send to their clients? They can do that iPhones nowadays or other types of phones, like the cameras are so good on them. Like, you could just set it up and do it in your kitchen. And if you really had the budget to go to town, you’d use someone to do a bit of a mix of real life and AI to get a video that you could send to clients to say this is what we do as a surveyor, this is a level two, or this is a level three. There’s so much access to these tools these days, and I just think you should like surveyors can just get on and do it.

Speaker 2: 40:50
So we’re coming towards the end um of the uh of the recording, but one of the things that I like to ask people is if someone’s thinking about being a residential surveyor, like what would you say to them? What would you sort of be saying what would you say to someone that’s thinking about it, maybe thinking about doing a course?

Speaker: 41:12
Well, it’s something I do I do get asked a lot. Um, okay. I normally ask the question about how much do you love property? Sounds it it sounds like a cop-out, it sounds a bit sad, but you’ve got to really like property, you’ve got to be interested in it. You cannot enter this industry by seeing a headline of work-life balance and high pay, because that’s not the real world. That’s probably a bit sharp, and but but I’m I’m always going to wear my heart and sleeve on that. You you don’t get paid a lot by not doing a lot or take or having a lot of responsibility. And as surveyors, we have a lot of responsibility, and it’s those times the reason I kind of asked how much do you love property? Because you’ve got to want to know how it’s put together, how it performs, how it will perform in the future. So, not just it’s a dry day, so the gutters aren’t leaking, but going, but when it does rain, how are these going to perform? You’ve got to be able to, if you turn up at a property and it’s an absolute dive, you’re still happy to go around and you’re still interested in going around because you love property, because you want to find out about how it’s put together. You’ve got to have that like passion for it. If you’re doing it because you see the headline, I just tell people, don’t do it, go find something else. You you’ve got to like property.

Speaker 2: 42:29
That’s good advice. It’s also that I’ve heard surveyors say, you know, they don’t like it when you get to a property. I mean, there’s usually always something when it when there’s not much in the way of defects. Yeah, that’s true. Yeah, right. You know, you wouldn’t want you wouldn’t want the homeowners and that to hear this, but you know, it’s actually more enjoyable because you’re fine, you want to find things, and it’s that curious moment to look for problems, yeah, and then follow the trail, and then all of what comes with it.

Speaker: 42:55
It’s so true, and I’ve definitely seen it like with our surveyors over the years. Sometimes there can be, and I and and I I’ve had it equally, like you kind of come out of there going, Well, have I missed something? Because like we we’re there to ultimately find like the problems or or we’re interested in finding it and then trying to solve the answer. I often say when surveyors are like that, well, take it as a win because there’ll be days you turn up and there’s all sorts going on, and and you, and then you’ve got to deal with it. So, no, like you didn’t miss anything, just take it as a little win.

Speaker 2: 43:28
Yeah, yeah, I think that’s a good point. So, uh, before we wrap up then today, David, anything else that you’d like to share with the uh the listeners?

Speaker: 43:37
I’m definitely passionate about there’s no brand in surveying. And as far as us, our goal is to be that standout brand. But I would just say for anyone else, because I’ve been one man band, and then now here, even if you are one man band, like you’ve got to get yourself out there, you’ve got to have be having these chats with estate agents broken. You’ve got to be thinking about your branding because that’s where you will become a brand into your little town. Like you use the example of an estate agent. Maybe you don’t want to employ people. That’s fine. But you still need to brand yourself to get people to come to you. So yeah, don’t worry about one-star reviews. You can’t please all the people all the time. All you can do is the best job possible. Get your name out there, have conversations with people, and you’ll be amazing like what dividends that pays.

Speaker 2: 44:32
Yeah, because I’m always of the one of my mottos is it’s not just what you know, but who you know. That’s one of my favorites. Yeah, yeah, 100%. Because people know, people remember you. Yeah. Conversation. You speak to someone, you take the time, you’re polite, you’re professional. Over time, that just compounds.

Speaker: 44:50
Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 2: 44:51
And then people were like, oh yeah, that was that David from Langview.

Speaker: 44:54
Yeah, we’ve had we’ve had instructions or even employment of people where it was just a conversation, it was just a meeting, it was just a pop-in, it was just a coffee. And yeah, okay, it didn’t happen straight away, but then it like you say, it compounds and it and it suddenly it comes back, comes back round. So yeah, it branding and building a business, it doesn’t matter whether it’s like to try and have 250 surveyors across the country or if it’s just you as a one-man band. Like you need to be having conversations, you need to be putting yourself out there.

Speaker 2: 45:30
Yeah, yeah. Super. Well, this has been great conversation, David.

Speaker: 45:35
That’s been really good. Thanks for having me.

Speaker 1: 45:37
Thank you for listening to This Is Surveying. If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe and leave a review. It really helps more people discover the podcast and supports the work we’re doing to raise awareness of the profession. You can also join the Surveying Room, the free and independent community from Surveys UK, bringing surveys together, breaking down silos, and of course making surveying visible. Just head over to surveyors UK.com to learn more and join today. All the links discussed in today’s episode are included in the show notes.